HS COACHES: Summer Base Building for a Rising 9th-Grader -- Input Requested

Have you reached out to the high school cross country coach to see what his/her plan is for base building and freshman mileage.

Personally, I'd drop the doubling, It doesn't make much sense at that mileage. Another thing I'd note, depending upon speed of the athlete, you may chose to try to drop the 6th day and extend the other 5, trying to get his long run up to an hour, and eventually longer than that.

This is a very slow build. Probably not necessary unless there have been issues in the past. However, no real harm in building this slowly, and 35 miles a week is about right for freshmen boys (we run by minutes, but that is about right for my faster freshmen boys) if they can get there without injury issues, which the slow build will help with. I would also work up to a longer long run than 6 miles, for sure. Most of my freshmen get up to 70 mins for their long run, but usually not till late August or early September (with a mid June start).

?curious? wrote:

Have you reached out to the high school cross country coach to see what his/her plan is for base building and freshman mileage.

I have not, but I like the idea. I suspect he'll have very general advice along the lines of, "run at least 4-days/week," or "just have fun and be active . . . we'll be averaging 40 miles/week on varsity this year." So in the event that he doesn't break it down to this level of detail, I'd still be interested in hearing input from LRC coaches on this plan.

HSCoachofsomeprettyfastkids wrote:

This is a very slow build. Probably not necessary unless there have been issues in the past. However, no real harm in building this slowly, and 35 miles a week is about right for freshmen boys (we run by minutes, but that is about right for my faster freshmen boys) if they can get there without injury issues, which the slow build will help with. I would also work up to a longer long run than 6 miles, for sure. Most of my freshmen get up to 70 mins for their long run, but usually not till late August or early September (with a mid June start).

Thanks, Coach. Very helpful!

yeah the doubling is useless. and going from 20 to 35 miles per week takes less than a summer.

HSCoachofsomeprettyfastkids wrote:

This is a very slow build. Probably not necessary unless there have been issues in the past. However, no real harm in building this slowly, and 35 miles a week is about right for freshmen boys (we run by minutes, but that is about right for my faster freshmen boys) if they can get there without injury issues, which the slow build will help with. I would also work up to a longer long run than 6 miles, for sure. Most of my freshmen get up to 70 mins for their long run, but usually not till late August or early September (with a mid June start).

Running by minutes is smart. The kids can go super easy or do a faster type progression run depending on how they feel. A long run of 70 min is pretty substantial for a freshman. I would think most would balk at the idea or burn out. I think 45 min working up to 60 min is better.

To the OP, make sure you don’t neglect speed. Plenty of striders and/or short hill sprints. I don’t think you need to plan tempo work. Your son can just run hard if he feels good. Maybe throw a light fartlek in there.

Well, I gave general feedback in regards to dropping the doubling and lengthening the long run.

In addition to dropping the doubling, you could keep the 6th day since you're taking out 5 or so miles from the morning and adding that to either the 5 days or adding a sixth. I agree with a prior poster who said to not neglect speed. Once a week or bi-weekly, short hill sprints with solid recovery are a good thing. Most kids love running fast, so this is right up their alley, and if you keep the number low to start (say 3-4) and build up to 8-10 by the end of the summer, he's not going to be shredding his legs.

One question I do have is, is your son interested in actually doing this or are you the one pushing this on him? I'm not accusing you of doing so, but if there is buy-in, it will go easier and then your only job will be to hold him back, so he doesn't go too much too soon.

We find minutes works best to make sure training load is comparable for the runners, since a very slow beginner girl running 3 miles is going to be on her feet a heck of a lot longer than the varsity boy running 3 miles (which would probably not be a workout anyway!) Perhaps a better comparison would be that an average girl running 40 miles a week is on her feet a lot longer the average boy running 40 miles a week.

The 70 minute long run is not a big deal at all, in fact, it is almost a source of pride for the kids when they get to that point. Plus, our veteran kids run 90 mins for their long run so they know that 70 mins is the first step in getting to that point. Our first couple weeks of long runs are run-walk for the beginners- either run 3 mins, walk 2 for 40 mins the first week, or run 4, walk 1 for the ones who are more fit. We move up by 5 mins a week or so, and transition to all running eventually as they are able.

I just did this with my daughter last summer. I focused on frequency and building up the duration of the runs. She started at 4 days a week and we increased 1 day each month, ending at 6 days a week for about a month, then team practice started. The long run started at 35-40 minutes and built to 60-70. I had another day or 2 that started at 30 minutes and built to 45 minutes. The easy/recovery days started at 20 min and built to 35 minutes. We started a mixture of fartleks in the second month (1-10 minute surges) once a week and tried to fast finish the long run. She had very little middle school mileage too and was able to handle this build up pretty easily.

Thanks, giver of input. How did your daughter end up doing in XC this year? I'm curious to hear if you think the summer training built up her confidence and made it easier for her to train without strain once she joined the team.

?Curious?, my son is the one pushing me, actually. I'm getting back into shape for the first time since he was born by running with him. For the most part, we're the least involved parents in the neighborhood when it comes to extracurricular activities. More often than not, he does what he wants after school and on weekends, and we do what's convenient for us. Old school.

Hills and fartlek are definitely part of the plan, once-a-coach.

It looks like the debate on doubles is alive and well. I recall reading a thread a few years back in which Malmo and Jim Spivey championed doubles for various reasons -- and didn't draw the distinction that many do between high and low mileage when it comes to doubling. I know doubling seemed to make a big difference for me early on in high school. I'll be curious to see if anyone weights in from the pro-double perspective.

I'm going to come down on the side of doing the doubles, even at lower mileage. I like your idea of the morning run just being a pure shakeout.

We did research on muscle inflammation for a student's project in a class that I teach (pretty slick project, the kid secured free blood testing for 6 teammates and we ran them through a series of 3 days of workouts, 2 groups using different recovery protocol). The short result is the kids that did recovery runs had lower blood markers of muscle inflammation than the kids who didn't do a recovery run. We didn't test the recovery run as an easy shakeout, but instead a run done the day after a very hard workout. I'm planning on having kids try doubling this summer even at low mileage because I want to see 2 things: 1. Does it help them stay healthier? and 2 does it help them build their volume more easily?

So, yeah....I think your plan looks pretty good.

I'm non-committal about advice on the long run. It's never been a huge part of our program, but I don't think building up to 60-70 minutes is out of line either.

Thanks all. I think it sounds like we have a consensus that there are no fatal flaws, at least. We'll leave open the possibility of a longer long run if he shows signs that he can handle it. The specific mileage listed is partly a function of how long the good loops are in the neighborhood -- but we talk often about badger miles, so he understands and embraces the the idea that the point isn't to maximize miles or race his training runs.

I think it’s a mistake to do all this planning before reaching out to the HS coach. Most HS programs have a formal training plan for the summer. Sometimes it’s led by coaches, sometimes team captains. Your son would be way better off socially and physically if he pursued that. If there’s no plan, the the HS program probably isn’t that great. If that’s the case and you’re doing your own plan, I would make it way less structured. Definitely drop the doubles if you expect your kid to be doing this for years. He can do that next summer or the one after that. Just get in 5 days of running with one of the runs a bit longer. Find something to build general strength, whether it’s the Jay Johnson stuff or working in the yard.

Your son should reach out to the HS XC coach for what summer training to do, not you.

I'd chill out and not be so prescriptive with a rising 9th grader. Very roughly, for a varsity caliber runner or one that wants to get there, get them to about 30 miles per week before 9th, 40 miles a week before 10th, 50 miles a week before 11th, and 60 miles a week before 12th. And, even then just having about 3 weeks in at that level is enough.

No doubles. Before 9th grade? You'll burn your kid out. Also, no speed work. Most HS coaches way overdo the speed work and racing, and you want him to be fast in late October early November anyway.

So, get him running about 5 miles a day... take a day off, and maybe get one run in a week that is about an hour. Get him to do it with friends. Whole point of this is to have fun, and better for him to be a little undertrained than overtrained in my opinion.

Agree. That plan is way too complicated. Just run nearly every day. Short, long, fast, slow... Mix it up. It's not brain surgery. Run a 5k or do a 20 min tempo once week. If current fitness is 19min, do it in 20:30 or so.

Check to see if the high school has a Summer Running Program in place.

If not, go by minutes. Everything by feel. Throw in some top-end speed work. I think a slow build-up in mileage is very doable. Here is my high school program (for beginners). We run 6 days a week.

WEEK 1: 30-35 minutes walk/run

WEEK 2: 30-35 minutes run/walk

WEEK 3: 35 minutes run

WEEK 4: 40 minutes run + strides

WEEK 5: 45 minutes run + strides & hill sprints + long run (60+ minutes)

WEEK 6: 50 minutes run + strides & hill sprints + long run (70+ minutes) + hilly run

WEEK 7: 55 minutes run + strides & hill sprints + long run (80+ minutes) + hilly run

WEEK 8: 60 minutes run + strides & hill sprints + long run (90+ minutes) + hilly run

WEEK 9: 60 minutes run + strides & hill sprints + long run (90+ minutes) + hilly run + tempo run

WEEK 10: 60 minutes run + strides & hill sprints + long run (90+ minutes) + hilly run + tempo run

If everything is by feel & a portion of the running is soft surfaces only, the above is safe build-up for any high school kid.

My runners do ab work (M, W, F) & hip strengthening (T, TH, S). We do barefoot exercises & barefoot running (T, TH).

I would recommend reading some Lydiard. Young runners need aerobic development more than fancy workouts.

Hope this helps.

Yes, lots of great advice. Thanks, all, for taking the time to respond.

I am for doubling. I think that doubling is very important for someone who wants to achieve success in running. The most important part of the doubling is the commitment anyway. So starting that now while doing little mileage will make it very easy to do without too much stress. Then as you add more mileage the doubles will already be a standard part of the training and you won't have to try to add them in later.