The current state of marriage is the reason why dating is so difficult.

mg1228 wrote:

mwebster3 wrote:

There’s no such thing as a homosexual because some people are predisposed to alcohol addiction? Sound logic.

There is no such thing as a true homosexual because homosexuality is a sin, and God would never create a sinner. It’s each person’s choice how they wish to live their lives.

Some people are more genetically predisposed to alcohol addiction, but then again, they have the choice to never take a drink of alcohol. By never taking that first drink, they will never become an alcoholic.

Numerous studies have shown that 99.763% of men who say homosexuality is a choice are, in fact, gay themselves. Truly straight men never have to think about who they are attracted to and, if you are a man who has had to “chose to be straight”, you are gay by definition.

Also, comparing alcoholism to homosexuality? Seriously? Do you crave c0ck and boistinkers so badly you have to go to daily meetings to prevent your self from randomly shoving your face into some dudes butt? You are gay bro...not that there’s anything wrong with that. Learn to accept yourself please.

"If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death." (Note the implicit approval of sodomizing one's wife) Leviticus 20:13

"Jesus cursed effeminate men (those men who are in the similitude (assume the manners of women) and those women who assume the manners of men, and he said, 'Turn them out of your houses' Mark 10:6-9

"...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)" Romans 1:26-69

Wait...I thought that the mental gymnastics routine used by supposed Christians to denigrate Islam was to try an ignore the Old Testament (which contains many, many violent passages calling for Christian equivalents of religious war (jihad)) and say modern Christians only follow the New Testament? But you quote some Old Testament there, so I supppose you must believe and accept it as the “word of god”, right? Then please explain the following in the context of the argument that abortion is bad based on Christianity and that The Christian religion does not preach hate and violence...

If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known, gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other), do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them. You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people. Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the Lord your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.' "The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this day."

Exodus 32:27-29

The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open.

Hosea 13:16

Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.' " … He took Agag king of the Amalekites alive, and all his people he totally destroyed with the sword.

1 Samuel 15:3,8

mwebster3 wrote:

mg1228 wrote:

There is no such thing as a true homosexual because homosexuality is a sin, and God would never create a sinner. It’s each person’s choice how they wish to live their lives.

Some people are more genetically predisposed to alcohol addiction, but then again, they have the choice to never take a drink of alcohol. By never taking that first drink, they will never become an alcoholic.

Homosexuality is not a sin, and sinners are born every minute.

All sexual activity outside the bonds of marriage between a man and woman is a sin, and sinners are born every minute. A heterosexual judging his/his adultery or premarital sex as less sinful than homosexual activity is hypocrisy. A person considering himself chaste even though he's spent hours indulging in sexual fantasy through viewing pornography, is also hypocrisy. We are all fail to live up to God's standard. The solution is not to try to change the standard. That is the way of foolishness. So what is the solution?

"O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus,[a] who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit."

mwebster3 wrote:

celery wrote:

I progressed down a logical pathway that lead to this statement "Everyone's thinking on the topic of homosexuality has been diluted because the behavior and the identity have been conflated."

I try to explain my ideas as clearly as possible. I'm truly sorry you couldn't follow the logic.

Your logic was fallacious. There are labels for behaviors as there are identities. Your point doesn’t hold up.

Conflating the label for behavior, with a fundamental aspect of a person's identity, IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY THE BEHAVIOR, is the logical fallacy. This is a trick that is used all the time.

Here is an example of this tactic used on another hot-button topic; illegal immigration.

Conservative- "I think we should enforce our borders, if someone is here illegally, they should be deported."

Leftist- "So your calling this person an illegal? PEOPLE ARE NOT ILLEGAL!"

So, we should judge the rightness or wrongness of a particular behavior by looking at the behavior itself. When we conflate behavior and identity, we loose the ability to think clearly regarding both of them.

You must be trolling. All of your Bible quotations are wrong. The first one is kind of on topic, but quoted wrong...maybe you have some erroneous translation. The next to passages are so incorrect, I have no idea where you're getting them from. Romans chapter 1 doesn't even have 69 verses.

So if I see some Amalekites, I'll be sure to kill them. Especially since they were systematically killing the women and children on the edge of my people's camp while my great grand-parents where living in the desert.

Oh wait, maybe that instruction about the Amalekites is only in the context of a Nation-State of Israel defending itself. In fact, maybe all the stories you quoted have a specific historical context, and don't apply today. But then again, a lot of Christians and especially Jews (the original recipients of those instructions) think they apply to them today. Have you seen all the suicide bombings and plane hijacking done by Christians and Jews lately? Its really getting out of hand.

What about the Deuteronomy passage? What do you make of that, brah?

celery wrote:

mwebster3 wrote:

Your logic was fallacious. There are labels for behaviors as there are identities. Your point doesn’t hold up.

Conflating the label for behavior, with a fundamental aspect of a person's identity, IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY THE BEHAVIOR, is the logical fallacy. This is a trick that is used all the time.

Here is an example of this tactic used on another hot-button topic; illegal immigration.

Conservative- "I think we should enforce our borders, if someone is here illegally, they should be deported."

Leftist- "So your calling this person an illegal? PEOPLE ARE NOT ILLEGAL!"

So, we should judge the rightness or wrongness of a particular behavior by looking at the behavior itself. When we conflate behavior and identity, we loose the ability to think clearly regarding both of them.

I didn’t use the label to justify any behavior, I refuted your notion that the label doesn’t exist.

Why ignore the first one, brah? wrote:

celery wrote:

So if I see some Amalekites, I'll be sure to kill them. Especially since they were systematically killing the women and children on the edge of my people's camp while my great grand-parents where living in the desert.

Oh wait, maybe that instruction about the Amalekites is only in the context of a Nation-State of Israel defending itself. In fact, maybe all the stories you quoted have a specific historical context, and don't apply today. But then again, a lot of Christians and especially Jews (the original recipients of those instructions) think they apply to them today. Have you seen all the suicide bombings and plane hijacking done by Christians and Jews lately? Its really getting out of hand.

What about the Deuteronomy passage? What do you make of that, brah?

Well the Jews didn't do a very good job of obeying that one, and they were eventually kicked out of the land for their disobedience. They still don't have full possession of their land to this day.

As a Christian with the ability to read. I know this command is in the context of the Israelites in their land (... gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other). So, it's not a stumbling stone for me. Also notice that the witness to the crime was to be the first one to throw the stone...so that's an interesting restraint on false accusations that was built into this command. Centuries later, with further revelation, Jesus said "let he who is without sin among you, be the first to cast the stone."

I don't know how practicing Jews living in Israel today deal with this command, you would have to ask them. I have no doubt they have a satisfactory answer. They're pretty much the smartest people in the world. They have been the keepers of God's revealed wisdom to humanity for 35 centuries, so they never fail to impress.

Now I know the middle east is not a bacon of progress, but at least the Gays don't have so much influence on society there. Overall, there are also much lower numbers of them in places like for example Iran, which is I think because of there better awareness of the symptomatics of gayness and better preventive measures. Overall I think living in accordence with the holy rules of the scripture might be the cure of the gay-epidemics.

Let's think about dating and modern society ...

* Men and women spend 2/3 of their day at "work." Modern business management theory has turned the work place into a social club ("teams", volunteering events, parties with unlimited free drinks, etc.). The vast majority of extramarital affairs originate at work. At the same time, the official rules for employees are to "keep it professional," not flirt, lest they have their professional career ruined by a sexual harassment charge.

* Related to the above point: because work plus commute times is consuming more of the day, men and women have less time and energy for going out on a date, require more time to be alone to decompress from the chaos of meetings, performance reviews, etc.

* Men and women have other personal priorities such as gym, yoga class, updating their social media accounts, walking their dog, etc.

* Social media makes everyone feel like they are living on-camera 24/7, like a reality show. This increases the expectations they have for a dating partner, because they require a partner who will be a good accessory for their social media presence. 50 years ago, the only time you felt pressure to look like an attractive couple was when you had a wedding and the photographer took a couple low-resolution photos and you choose the best ones to make physical copies to magnet to your refrigerator. Nowadays, you have the added pressure of everything you do as a couple being turned into a thousand high-resolution photos that instantly circulate among a network of a thousand acquaintances.

mwebster3 wrote:

celery wrote:

Conflating the label for behavior, with a fundamental aspect of a person's identity, IN ORDER TO JUSTIFY THE BEHAVIOR, is the logical fallacy. This is a trick that is used all the time.

Here is an example of this tactic used on another hot-button topic; illegal immigration.

Conservative- "I think we should enforce our borders, if someone is here illegally, they should be deported."

Leftist- "So your calling this person an illegal? PEOPLE ARE NOT ILLEGAL!"

So, we should judge the rightness or wrongness of a particular behavior by looking at the behavior itself. When we conflate behavior and identity, we loose the ability to think clearly regarding both of them.

I didn’t use the label to justify any behavior, I refuted your notion that the label doesn’t exist.

My original post was in response to "graphic you tube.." who did seem to be confused about being born gay (comparing it to being born blind) and the ramifications for whether homosexuality could be justified on those grounds. Yes, I was being a tad hyperbolic when I said there is no such thing as a homosexual. To speak more precisely, I was criticizing the idea that homosexual behavior is an intrinsic and immutable part of one's identity and could therefore not be criticized.

Of course the label of homosexual exist as a representation of one's habitual behavior. The label "alcoholic" exists in the same way. But it's also possible to be a "recovering alcoholic." So the identity of "alcoholic" is not intrinsic and immutable to one's identity, in a way that would make it impossible to criticize the excessive drunkenness of an alcoholic.

The comparison to alcoholism is of course, not a perfect comparison (there is no such thing as a perfect comparison), but I have reiterated the gist of the idea now in multiple posts.

But just to make one last attempt;

Perhaps a better comparison is with pedophilia. If someone is born (or more accurately, emerges from puberty) with a sexual attraction toward children, does this person's inherent draw toward pedophilia make it a justified act? Are we condemning this person's identity as a pedophile, if we don't allow them to molest children? Or are we just condemning molestation, and the person's "identity" as pedophile is not relevant to the conversation?

In the past, before the invention of post modernism, people could more clearly think about moral questions. Homosexual behavior has been a part of humanity for as far back as we have recorded history. The identity of "homosexual" is a recent invention of the post modern world view.

mwebster3 wrote:

mg1228 wrote:

There is no such thing as a true homosexual because homosexuality is a sin, and God would never create a sinner. It’s each person’s choice how they wish to live their lives.

Some people are more genetically predisposed to alcohol addiction, but then again, they have the choice to never take a drink of alcohol. By never taking that first drink, they will never become an alcoholic.

Homosexuality is not a sin, and sinners are born every minute.

Leviticus 18:22 - "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Homosexuality is a sin, therefore, it can be corrected. No one is born with their fate decided, as it would be against the nature of God, who gives us free will. Yes, we all will sin in our lifetime, but we are not sinners as soon as we are born. Also, we can always repent.

for the record, I was not the one originally comparing alcoholism to homosexuality. That was "celery."

But lol. Great percentage you found, as it is not true. There is scientific reasoning as to why some people's sexual preferences are different such as genetics/brain structuring, just how someone can be more genetically predisposed to alcoholism. However, we all can learn to not act on our desires. There is no physical structure that shows if someone is gay or not, so whoever feels this way can learn to change.

Saying that someone can't help but be gay is treating homosexuality like a mental illness, which has been done away with.

mg1228 wrote:

mwebster3 wrote:

Homosexuality is not a sin, and sinners are born every minute.

Leviticus 18:22 - "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Homosexuality is a sin, therefore, it can be corrected. No one is born with their fate decided, as it would be against the nature of God, who gives us free will. Yes, we all will sin in our lifetime, but we are not sinners as soon as we are born. Also, we can always repent.

Not everything that disobeys a fairytale is sinful. Homosexuality is amongst the many things that isn’t.

mwebster3 wrote:

mg1228 wrote:

Leviticus 18:22 - "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."

Leviticus 20:13 - "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."

Homosexuality is a sin, therefore, it can be corrected. No one is born with their fate decided, as it would be against the nature of God, who gives us free will. Yes, we all will sin in our lifetime, but we are not sinners as soon as we are born. Also, we can always repent.

Not everything that disobeys a fairytale is sinful. Homosexuality is amongst the many things that isn’t.

Oh, the common argument that the Bible is just a story. Haha. If neither the Bible nor God existed, there would be no life, no Earth, no universe, no anything.

I kinda think it's important wrote:

.... 5% of the population is telling the other 95% how to live..

This is almost ignorantly absurd.

More than 50% of the population are saying that 5% of the population should have the same rights of liberty and the pursuit of happiness as the other 95%.

That's all.