Training Log for a 2:30ish Boston Marathon 2018

Ha, if I seem like I have lots of experience at the marathon, then my ruse has worked! Seriously, Boston will be only my 4th marathon, with my first one coming in November 2014. But I am 46 and have been around the sport a while, and I have had success as a masters athlete in my prior 3 marathons (apparently despite subscribing to a Daniels-style approach based on the comments on these threads).

I think your post further emphasizes the point that I made and that you affirmed - there is a bunch of overlap between approaches. I haven't looked very deeply into the Hansons' approach, but I do know that for the non-elites they focus less on the length of long runs and more on including some intensity to effectively stretch them out to feel like something longer (which, when combined with a moderately long run the night before, gets you pretty deep into the energy reserves). Compare that idea to Daniels approach of a 2 mile warm up, a cruise intervals session of about 4 miles worth of LT work, followed by an easy 8-10, followed by 15-20 minutes at LT effort, followed by a cool down. While this is certainly not identical to the Hansons relatively short long run approach since it works out to a 20 mile day, it does share that common component of functionally extending a long run by using integrated hard efforts to give it the feel of a run that is significantly longer.

Smoove, I know you have posted your peak mileage all over the place for your marathon builds, but I can't seem to find the exact post. Can you go over your peak mileage again?

NYC mileage, for the 11 weeks before the week of the marathon (2:35 at age 42 on a brutally windy day, first marathon, 7th place masters, 2nd American masters):

76

71

63 miles + 40 minutes elliptical

70

79

57

80

60

59

55

40

Chicago mileage, for the 11 weeks before the week of the marathon (2:30 at age 43, 1st place male masters (chicked by Deena Kastor)):

91.5

82.25

70.25

80.25

80.5

64

100

70.5

59

59.25

37 (was holding on for dear life after the 100 mile week in the Florida summer nearly broke me)

Boston mileage, for the 11 weeks before the week of the marathon (2:34 at age 45 on a pretty warm day, 13th place male masters, 3rd place 45 and up (1st American 45 and up)):

85

60.25

50

90

80.25

70.75

90

70.5

67.5

53

48

I'm enjoying reading all of the thoughts on how to train to run fast marathons for us mere mortals. I think the way to approach training is a little different for those of us who can't afford to spend all their time on The Pursuit. I'm also running Boston this spring with the intention (foolhardy or not) of running OTQ pace for as long as possible, which will hopefully be for 26.2 miles.

Below is what I have been up to over the last few weeks. For simplicity's sake, "AHL" is an "Alternating Hill Loops" workout that I have been doing to prepare for the quad abuse of Boston's hills. It is a perfect mile loop with a 4-6% grade hill for about 600 meters, a pretty aggressive downhill for 600 meters, and a rolling last 400 meters to loop back to the start for about 100 feet of gain. I've done this workout alternating 1 loop (1 mile) at MP or faster and 1 loop float recovery (continuous). So "8 miles AHL 5:20/6:00" would mean 4x(1 mi 5:20/1 mi 6:00) continuous for 8 miles at 5:40 average pace. Right. The training:

Dec 25-31: 110 miles (18 mile long run [6:03] with middle 10 miles AHL 5:18/6:10)

Jan 1-7: 90 miles (12 miles with middle 6 cutdown 5:50 -> 5:15 , 14 long run [6:15]) - down week

Jan 8-14: 100 miles (22 mile trail run, 17 mile long run, and 15 [5:55] with middle 8 miles AHL 5:14/5:50)

Jan 15-21: 114 miles (14 mile trail run, 18 mile long run [5:56] with middle 5 cutdown 5:35->5:15)

Jan 22-28: 120 miles (14 miles [6:14] with middle 6 MP [5:15], 17 mile long run [6:10], 12 mile trail run)

Jan 28-Feb 4: 97 miles (12 miles [5:41] AHL 5:14/6:08, 12 miles with 3x800 @ 2:24, 18 mile long run [6:15]) - down week

Feb 5-11: 110 miles (16 miles [6:00] with 2x4 miles MP (5:16 on both) with 1 mi easy recovery(6:15), 18 mile long run [6:20] with middle 4 a bit faster than HMP [5:05])

Feb 12-18: 125 planned (16 with middle 8 AHL 5:10/5:55, planned 4x800 @2:24, planned 20 at 6:10-6:20)

I find MP and faster too mechanically demanding to do for more than 10-15 miles total per week, and even then I won't start doing that much until my mileage drops a little closer to race day.

For reference I am 23 and this will be my 3rd marathon- 2:28 and 2:21 for my first and second attempts, respectively.

In the big picture, I have come a long way over the last 2 cycles in my ability to still be able to hit workouts at higher total volume...my first marathon cycle I topped out at 115 and bombed every third workout or so just from being tired from the volume. I think I'll be running my best marathons when I can handle the 120-130 range more consistently while still hitting more aggressive workouts than I am currently running.

Sorry for the wall of text. Cheers and happy training to all!

Nice training. I think you should definitely be going for that OTQ. There will certainly be a good group doing the same thing at Boston.

Out of curiosity, what are some of your other PRs?

Some of my other PR's:

1 mile- 4:19 (high school)

5k- 14:30

10k- 30:30

Half- 1:09:29 (I've never really run a fast course with good conditions...I split faster when I ran 2:21)

I am clearly stronger over the marathon than I am over the shorter distances. I'm trying to get an OTQ out of the way so I can go ahead and move up to ultras!

Dang KYtrailrunner, you're pursuing The Pursuit in earnest. Nice work!

KYtrailrunner wrote:

Some of my other PR's:

1 mile- 4:19 (high school)

5k- 14:30

10k- 30:30

Half- 1:09:29 (I've never really run a fast course with good conditions...I split faster when I ran 2:21)

I am clearly stronger over the marathon than I am over the shorter distances. I'm trying to get an OTQ out of the way so I can go ahead and move up to ultras!

If Sage is still reading this I'm sure he'll pop in here...

I'm not nearly as fast as you but have been into the idea of ultras since I started running. Gave them a shot last year planning 3 50ks and a 50 miler. Did another 50k instead of the 50 miler due to a poorly timed flu but learned a lot last year.

I was 24 last year and I sort of wish I had just kept doing road racing instead even though trail racing is very fun. For you, don't just give up on faster races once you hit that OTQ...give it a couple more years while sprinkling in some shorter trail races. It's way easier to recover from a trail 30k than a 50k for example, and you can learn a lot about your weaknesses on the trails without running over 3 hours.

Anyway...maybe Sage will disagree as he wants more fast road guys to race.

I'm doing a 50k this weekend actually that I regret signing up for...

For those with interest it's the fourmidable 50k in Auburn, CA and it was the USATF 50k trail champs last year, won by Max King in 3:35ish on a muddy day. 5700' of vert (ish) so hilly but not a mountain race, and all at low elevations. My main goal is to finish the race without being totally destroyed so I can keep training the next couple weeks. Two guys should beat me (on paper anyway) and a couple more I should be (on paper, lol) so I'm hoping for 3rd place which would win me $500, the biggest prize I'll probably ever win from running.

Strategy: (and I'm only posting this here so I can go back and reflect later...)

Because my last 2 50ks ended with lots of suffering, I plan to go out really slow. Barely faster than easy pace and especially easy going uphill. It's easy to get the HR up on some climbs but I really want to keep my HR from hitting 170, which is about my tempo effort. My plan is to eat more calories during this race than I ever have before, which is about 250+kcal/hr from the beginning. 300kcal/hr would be great. I'll be eating gels (Gu) plus a drink mix, whatever's available at the aid stations (all about 5mi apart, or ~35-45min). The race has four major climbs of about 800' each at miles 3, 10, 15, and 28ish. If I can get to mile 28 still ready to run the steep sections of the last climb, I'll be pretty happy. There's also a very nice 2mi downhill around 25-27 that would be nice to really charge down. I hope I'm able to...as usually I'm pretty toast by mile 22.

Anyway, hopefully being conservative lets me run down somebody in the last 10k.

I wouldn't say that you are clearly better over the marathon distance - I think that 5k PR is your strongest time of the 5 you have listed. My guess is that it is the strongest because it is the event that you have run the most so you had the most opportunities to improve it. I am interested to see your progression as you get more experience with the longer distances.

My training may be going sideways a bit here, with some ankle tendon issues - hoping it is just some posterior tibial tendonitis that I can work through, and not a bigger issue. I was forced to take yesterday off and will probably be taking another day off either today or this weekend. Bad timing as this was supposed to be my 2nd of 3 peak mileage weeks, but rather than getting into the 90 mile range with a key 13-at-marathon-pace workout, it looks like I may end up at 60 or less, with no quality days. Fortunately, my aerobic fitness for a 2:30 effort is already there and a few days off won't change that, but it does mess with my head some even though my experience and brain tell me that it is not a big deal to have one off week in training when you are otherwise fit.

that's pretty optimistic Reed. Good luck.

your PB at CIM is basically 2:33. a 3 minute PB on a tougher course and you aren't in sub 33:00 10k shape.

lots of work to do....

you might be able to get there if you don't push too hard and just get solid, consistent training, but most just push too hard when going for an ambitious goal (myself included) and get hurt, overtrained, or mentally fizzle. I'd go for 2:31:x and try to break 2:30 at CIM

good luck

My experience has been to go sub 2:30 at Boston you need to be in closer to 2:26 shape in perfect conditions. It's not just the course that you have to take into consideration but also the weather. Conditions are likely to be not ideal so you need some wiggle room. Train for 2:26 and go out at 2:30 pace come Patriot's day. Good luck all.

heyyo wrote:

My experience has been to go sub 2:30 at Boston you need to be in closer to 2:26 shape in perfect conditions. It's not just the course that you have to take into consideration but also the weather. Conditions are likely to be not ideal so you need some wiggle room. Train for 2:26 and go out at 2:30 pace come Patriot's day. Good luck all.

2:26 on a very hot year...probably about right. But the only way I was ever even going to attempt to run 2:29 was with perfect weather and perfect training.

Obviously the training hasn't been there at this point, although I feel that I'm getting in shape week by week.

I no longer consider 2:29:59 to be my goal FYI, pretty much any PR would be fantastic at this point (2:32:50s) especially if the weather isn't perfect.

I do plan on running CIM again in 2018 with the 2:29 goal for sure (assuming no lengthy breaks in training).

And if you're just tuning in, I'm gonna screw up everything by racing/running a 50k trail race tomorrow.

Pretty sure I know who you are, your usernname gave it away. Nice job at the Monumental. I think more post-collegiates could be as fast as you if they dedicated to the marathon, but not everybody wants to train for it. I think the mindset of the marathon is as important for success at the distance as anything else.

There are some pretty strong context clues within there, so I'm not sure someone figured out who I am.

But to your point, I agree that more post-collegiates could run fast marathons if they gave themselves a couple of years to focus on it. I was nothing special in college, but the idea of the marathon was something that always captured my imagination which has given me the right "mindset" to run 120 mile weeks to train for it. I know plenty of guys who probably had the potential to run an OTQ if they had given themselves a couple of years of marathon-specific training, but they were just utterly burned out (either mentally or physically) after 4-5 years in the NCAA. I'm glad to have made it through D1 with both my body and love of running still in one piece, because that outcome is far from being a given.

heyyo wrote:

My experience has been to go sub 2:30 at Boston you need to be in closer to 2:26 shape in perfect conditions.

For a typical year. Hall wasn't in 2:01 shape when he ran 2:04. In perfect conditions, you need to be in 2:29:59 shape to go sub 2:30.

What are the odds of a heat day another year in a row?

You just cherry picked one year’s conditions...

Yeah, assuming I'm healthy and that training closes out well, I still won't take a shot at sub 2:30 unless temps are going to be in the 50s or colder and no appreciable headwind.

It's not bad every year wrote:

heyyo wrote:

My experience has been to go sub 2:30 at Boston you need to be in closer to 2:26 shape in perfect conditions.

For a typical year. Hall wasn't in 2:01 shape when he ran 2:04. In perfect conditions, you need to be in 2:29:59 shape to go sub 2:30.

What are the odds of a heat day another year in a row?

probabillity has no memory ;)

Not to be a stalker or anything, but I ran the half marathon and I looked up the background of the top finishers at the marathon and half marathon just out of curiosity, because I was like "who the heck are these guys? They are fast."

Good point about guys being burned out from their D1 experience, I can understand that. I ran at a high school where we did two-a-days and ran about 60-70 miles a week, and it took up so much time that you start to wonder if there is more to life than school and running. So I didn't run in college because of that.

I wonder if the collegiate running system dissuades many runners from pursuing post-collegiate competitive running. It's 4 years of running 3 competitive seasons, with many other factors that take away from the gradual improvement and enjoyment of running. When one is done with it, I don't blame them for wanting to do something else beyond running.

Anyways, I came to this thread because I want to run a sub-2:30 marathon by the end of the year, so I'll look around some more and see how it goes.