50th Anniversary of Ryun 3'51.1WR - Congratulations Better Late Than Never !

some interesting comments: scott :

"To be honest, I don't think I have ever seen footage of his race, that was amazing!! He looks like he was shot out of a cannon the last 200 meters! To run that fast, by himself, on a dirt track with no rabbits is quite the accomplishment. He was a beautiful runner to watch."

has he been in alcatraz last decade not to have seen youtube vid ?

please also keep in mind that Ryun ran a qualifying 1- mile heat race the day before!! "He ran a 4:07, opening lap of 67, last lap of 56, last 3/4 in 3:00 (just checked his training log for the splits, so they're correct)!", said his son Drew Ryun

seriously unrested as a 3-flat finish day before

that means big time to knock off for fully rested run on WR day...

incredible comments indicating how much faster he couda run, just as solo, if he had hammered it from the gun

"sweltering" is important as IMO idealt temperature for a mile at trackside is ~ 70 - 75 or basically room temperature with 0 humidity as always, as you need some sweating even in a mile & low humidity to evaporate it off

"sweltering" to me indicates well over 80, perhaps even into 90's F at trackside, perhaps even into 100s ?

( weather records will help partly but not account for concentrating bowl effect of a stadium )

some serious big time to come off from big fahrenheit & also big humidity

unlikely low humidity if bakersfield is near coast or generally non-low humidity area

epstein claims assumed pristine dirt is 1.5% slower than synthetic

i go by 1s/lap to a '70s synthetic

Ryun here has to entitled at worst on this chewed-up dirt in region of

~ 1.5s /lap

interesting estimation then to combine this with drafting to bell, worth probably 0.7s/lap for expected 3 laps, "proper" temperature/humidity, then absolutely shocking splits when too much energy left at end of race, all after prelim day before with 3-flat last 1320y

hugely intelligent beings here

analyse estimate these parameters take you to...

Quite the conversation you've started with yourself. You've had it before.

Talking amongst oneself wrote:

Quite the conversation you've started with yourself. You've had it before.

He is undoubtedly a mod or maybe even one of the brojos

“In fact, I don’t ever remember running with such ease.”

Sounds pretty well-rested to me...

Talking amongst oneself wrote:

Quite the conversation you've started with yourself. You've had it before.

If someone managed to make him understand that 'couda' isn't a word, he wouldn't be able to say much.

couda wouda wrote:

Talking amongst oneself wrote:

Quite the conversation you've started with yourself. You've had it before.

If someone managed to make him understand that 'couda' isn't a word, he wouldn't be able to say much.

While maya is a word, it isn't the right one for his usage.

macdaddy wrote:“In fact, I don’t ever remember running with such ease.”

Sounds pretty well-rested to me...

unfortunately whatever his personal opinion was of the race, it is physically impossible to run your best possible mile if you have run prelim day before on incidentally also chewed up dirt, regardless of last 1320y in 3-flat

he was NOT rested

calculo wrote:

macdaddy wrote:“In fact, I don’t ever remember running with such ease.”

Sounds pretty well-rested to me...

unfortunately whatever his personal opinion was of the race, it is physically impossible to run your best possible mile if you have run prelim day before on incidentally also chewed up dirt, regardless of last 1320y in 3-flat

he was NOT rested

Even though we have listed many examples where people ran their best with a packed schedule?

Bayi, Cruz, Rudisha, Keino, Kipketer,,,,,,,,um... RYUN etc.

Have you ever actually raced?

The mostly dead wrote:Even though we have listed many examples where people ran their best with a packed schedule?

Bayi, Cruz, Rudisha, Keino, Kipketer,,,,,,,,um... RYUN etc

err...

what on earth makes you think that woud be their 1-off zurich ?

Have you ever actually raced?

for trillionith time

if you have abilty of 1'38+ or 3'24+, then ask me

if not...

calculo wrote:

http://www.runblogrun.com/2017/07/jim-ryuns-3511-world-record-mile--50-years-later--perspectives-from-those-who-followed.html

I hate just about everything you post except when it's about Jim Ryun.

No one carries the torch like calculo. No one.

I get that I am denying my own request here in saying this, but:

Please. Good people of LRC. Just don't respond to this thread. Just let it die in silence. Let it be relegated to the history books.

Thank you.

doot doot wrote:

calculo wrote:

http://www.runblogrun.com/2017/07/jim-ryuns-3511-world-record-mile--50-years-later--perspectives-from-those-who-followed.html

I hate just about everything you post except when it's about Jim Ryun.

then learn to analyse

this relay at 18y indicates 44-low speed on 70's synthetic , not disimilar for his power to Korir who has run 43.34R, worth 44-flat open

Ryun had monumental speed, likely even Korir level for middle distance

that's what weight training &/or massive height can offer for speed for middle distance

calculo wrote:

The mostly dead wrote:Even though we have listed many examples where people ran their best with a packed schedule?

Bayi, Cruz, Rudisha, Keino, Kipketer,,,,,,,,um... RYUN etc

err...

what on earth makes you think that woud be their 1-off zurich ?

Have you ever actually raced?

for trillionith time

if you have abilty of 1'38+ or 3'24+, then ask me

if not...

Eh?

bla bla bla we get it, congratulations Ryun for your 1:38 (time passes and he becomes faster and faster!!) and 3:24 abilities, you were so great and ventolin is always right, i am so happy for the honor of congratulating you here. Until next time for the same thing all over again, when you will probably have become a 1:37 / 3:23.

Look, this is clearly a great run and Ryun was certainly capable of sub 3:50 that day.

In modern times, apart from Bayi and Ryun, has anyone run a WR in the mile 1500 leading every step of the way? Walker, Coe, Ovett and the north Africans never did.

Cinder/dirt tracks were slower than synthetic ones - even the synthetic tracks of the 1960s. Anyone who has raced on both surfaces will testify to that! Exactly how slower they were is an unanswerable question because the quality of cinder tracks varied so much - even within an afternoon or evening of racing as Ryun remarks.

For those two years, 1966 &'67, Ryun was as good as any middle distance runner there has been. He was never the same afterwards. Effects of illness suffered in 1968? Inevitable consequence of his training load? The reasons can be endlessly debated. Just enjoy watching the videos of him at his peak!

calculo wrote:

http://www.runblogrun.com/2017/07/jim-ryuns-3511-world-record-mile--50-years-later--perspectives-from-those-who-followed.html

Yeah, Ryun is a Jesus freak and a boomer. Two facts that make everything he did unimpressive.

[quote]milermb wrote:

Look, this is clearly a great run and Ryun was certainly capable of sub 3:50 that day.

➡ he would have had to make up 1.75m per lap.

In modern times, apart from Bayi and Ryun, has anyone run a WR in the mile 1500 leading every step of the way?

➡Herb Elliot.

Walker, Coe, Ovett and the north Africans never did.

➡Walker, Coe, Ovett all have Olympic gold medals.

Cinder/dirt tracks were slower than synthetic ones - even the synthetic tracks of the 1960s. Anyone who has raced on both surfaces will testify to that!

➡exactly the reason Ryun ran slower on synthetic tracks than the freshly rolled ciders that's he set records on.

➡ Kip Keino is the real hero running 13:24 on rubbish dirt @ Western Springs.

➡we have little in the way of testing this their base hardness, they could have been very hard. Illegal by modern standards.

Exactly how slower they were is an unanswerable question because the quality of cinder tracks varied so much - even within an afternoon or evening of racing as Ryun remarks.

➡and after just being rolled for Ryun's record attempts.

For those two years, 1966 &'67, Ryun was as good as any middle distance runner there has been. He was never the same afterwards. Effects of illness suffered in 1968? Inevitable consequence of his training load? The reasons can be endlessly debated. Just enjoy watching the videos of him at his peak!

➡Jim Ryun got an advantage that Salazar (altitude tents, live high train low) and numerous others have only worked out in the last 10 or so years. The hypoxic advantage, in which you do speed work at altitude and then fly straight to sea level for a race. Ryun was obviously a high responder to this in 1966 & 1967. Walker and Coe never tried this at their peaks, Ovett did in once in 1976 after an injury but it was disastrously organized. Without the hypoxic stimulus he was barely a 3:53 man. If you can gain 2s from altitude training Coe would have run 3:45.33 & Walker 3:47 flat.

➡Ryun hides behind not being an altitude native for his loss in 1968. But Gammoudi, Doubell and Mike Ryan were at more of a disadvantage and out performed.