5k Sub 16 shape?

sorry but that does not look like a sub-16 for me (based pretty much on your 400m / 1000m workouts).

I am also aiming for sub-16 and recently posted a thread about it, and I could do these workouts relatively easy.

especially the 1000m - I am able to do 8x1000 roughly at 3.15 and am not sure myself I am at sub-16 shape. For 6000m in total I could probably sustain that pace per 400 for 800m reps.

your long run seems to be too long as well.

I would say you are around 16:30-40 shape, sorry.

Hi can you recommend any changes in the plan for sub 16?

Yes I can. first thing that strikes me is that you are pretty much going hard almost every day. this means you are not performing that well at the track because you are burning yourself out in the other workouts.here's how i would do:M: RestT: Track, you could mix workouts, for example having at the same day like 2x1000 + 5x4000m or 3x800m + 10x200m.W: Easy 1hT: 1h moderate threshold / FartlekF: Easy 1hS: instead of doing one progressive 18k and then another long 30k I'd just mix and have for example a progressive 20k, divided in 4 blocks of 5k where you increase the pace each block.if you are into high mileage you could add an easy 1h on Monday, maybe a 2nd easy session on Tuesday / Thursday as well.

kshitijmiler wrote:

I Have my 5k race post 3 weeks.

Currently i am doing 2 sessions / week , 1 Long Run , 1 Moderate Threshold , 1 Fartlek and 1 Progressive Run. Please estimate the 5k time.

t: 15*400 74-75 , 1min rest

w: 1 hr moderate Threshold

t: 6*1000 3:25- 3:30 , 90sec recovery beginning one comes around 3:07 but fades to 3:30

f : 18km Progressive

s: Fartlek 30 * 1,1

s : 30 km Long run

Any suggestions would be helpful! i am aiming sub 16 for the race.

kshitijmiler wrote:

Hi can you recommend any changes in the plan for sub 16?

No just run faster those reps are not indicative of sub 16

Maybe adds some hills

If you could run the 6 x 1000 at about 3:10-15 average with 200 m jog rest (~ 60-70s), and the 15 x 400 at ~ 76-77s with 100 m jog rest (~ 35-40 s), and finish either / both sessions feeling spent but exhilarated, knowing you could do (not necessarily WANT to do, but COULD do with coach's gun to your head) another 1000 or a couple more 400s without the pace fading, I would expect you to be able to race 16-ish on a flat course (or track) with good competition and good weather.

The workouts you listed do not suggest close to sub-16. Maybe barely sub-17. What's your recent best?

To get better, you need to (IMHO) cut way back on the quality running, with two faster runs and one longer run per week, the rest being very easy running.

Good luck!

How Much faster ? and should the rest 90 sec adequate?. what else do you suggest.

This is my first 5k race , just preparing for cross country . Can you elaborate more on " To get better, you need to (IMHO) cut way back on the quality running, with two faster runs . "

Also the first repetition goes like 3,05 3,06 only when i do 1k and then fade to 3:20-3:25 avg. How to go about this?

As others have suggested, you need a bit of an overhaul on your approach to training. My suggestion is that you go out at about 5:20 pace for your 5k and see how well you can run, and then use that as a starting point rather than as a finishing point. If you have run other races recently, let us know what they were and we can probably give you better feedback.

The first thing that you need to do, as everyone is saying, is limit the number of workouts you are doing to 2 per week. You might be able to get away with 3 per week, but I would stick with 2 per week for a while. You should do one long run on top of the 2 workouts. I do think 30k is a bit long for your purposes, but if you really enjoy the long run of that distance, or if you are shooting for a half marathon in your next training cycle or a marathon in the near future, have at it.

Everything other than your 2 workouts should be done at a pace at which you can comfortably maintain a conversation.

One of your workouts should be a tempo paced run. The pace should be based on what your most recent race was (or what you run that 5k in when you run it). For someone at your level, that should be about :20 per mile slower than 5k pace if you are talking about a 20 minute tempo run, and about :30 per mile if you are talking about a 30 minute tempo run. You can vary the way in which you get the tempo workout in - 20 minute tempo run some weeks, 30 minute tempo run other weeks (again, especially if you are thinking about a half or marathon in the near future), progression runs other weeks (where you finish with your last 20 minutes averaging 20 minute tempo pace), cruise intervals other weeks (you can drop slightly below 20 minute tempo pace for these, keep the work to rest ratio at about 5:1).

The other workout can vary a bit. My tendency is to do 4 weeks of work at about mile race pace or hill repeats first. Plenty of rest, pace should be hard but under enough control such that you maintain good form. I would then say do about 6 weeks worth of work at 5k race pace, keeping the work to rest ratio at about 1:1 or 3:2. These can be done by distance or by time as a fartlek, but especially early on, I would recommend that they be done on the track by distance. Do away with the shorter 400m intervals or the 1 on/1 off fartleks as they don't give you as much adaptation as intervals from 1000m to 1600m in length. I would say maybe start with 6-8 x 800, then do 5-6 x 1000, then 4-5 x 1200, then 4 x 1600, then back down to 1200s, then back down to 1000s. Run each interval at your current 5k pace. Run them as evenly (each 200 within the interval at roughly the same pace) and consistently (each interval within the workout in roughly the same time) as possible. Do all of that and come back to this thread and people can give you workouts for the 2-3 weeks before race day.

Most importantly, go out and by a good book about training. I am a huge Daniels guy, but there are other good books out there. Pfitzenger is pretty popular, and is in line with Daniels general approach. You can also find what you can by Magness and Canova as they are also some of the modern classics. But educate yourself and understand why it is that you are doing what you are doing each day.

Also, while I have run considerably faster in the past, I am in roughly the shape that you set as your goal. I have run 3 5ks since August in the heat and humidity of the southeast. All were between 16:07 and 16:09. Here is a smattering of my workouts from that time. Not in exact order, and more speed oriented than I would recommend for you (I stuck to shorter workouts because it was so hot and humid where I live).

6 x 800 at 2:30, 2:29, 2:28, 2:29, 2:30, 2:30 w/2:00 rest

4 x 1600 @ 5:11, 5:17, 5:17, 5:19 w/:60 rest (cruise intervals - tempo workout)

4 x 1200 @ 3:43.7 avg w/3:00 rest

2 x 200 (31.9, 35.2) w/1:00 jog; 2 x 400 (:66.7, :66.7) 2:10 jog; 600 (1:44.1) w/4:30 rest; 600 (1:45.1) w/2:30 rest; 2 x 400 (:70.7, :69.1) w/2:30 rest; 2 x 200 (:31.1, :32.1) w/1:00 rest

2 up; 2 x [4 x 400] with 2:00 rest and 4:00 between sets (67.8, 69.6, 68.3, 67.2)(67.9, 69.5, 68.7, 67.1); 1 down

16:08 5k

5 x 1000 w/2:30-2:55 rest all at 3:07

2 up; 4 x [200 (:33.1-:34.4), 200 slow jog, 800 (2:29.4-2:30.6), 200 slow jog, 200 (:34.5-:35.6); 1 down

2 up; 2 x [4 x 400] with 2:00 rest and 4:00 between sets (67.8, 69.6, 68.3, 67.2)(67.9, 69.5, 68.7, 67.1); 1 down

16:08 5k

1.5 up; 8 x .25 (urban trail) @ :69.6, :68.2, :67.9, :68.3, :68.9, :69.9, :68.0, 67.9; 1.25 down

1.5 miles up; 3 x 2400 cruise intervals (8:04.1; 8:03.9; 8:08.0); 2 miles down

2.25 up; 5 x 1000 (3:06.1, 3:08.2, 3:06.6, 3:08.9, 3:10.4) w/3:00 mostly active rest; 2 down

20 minute tempo run (5:23)

The 400m repeats don't really suggest it.

The 30km long run is just a bad idea no matter what pace you're running it. There's no need to run for 2 hours straight, even if you want to race a half marathon soon.

Train smarter, that way you''ll run under 16 minutes.

I just ran a 15:45 (First time under 16) and I am able to do a comfy 6x800m workout in around 2:20, although I usually do them around 2:25. I am also able to do my 12 mile run in around 6 flat pretty comfy as well.

I mostly just try to do as many workouts at around sub 5 pace as I can.

I also ran 60-70 mpw all summer

I PRd by 45 seconds from summer training like this in one race

Seems like you push too much. Not enough recovery in between your hard days.

kshitijmiler wrote:

How Much faster ? and should the rest 90 sec adequate?. what else do you suggest.

There is nothing that wrong with your training.

The predictor for 5km is 4 x mile off 90. Pace us 5km race pace. It's too tough a session to do every week.

Long run I would just run at consistent pace rather than varying pace.

Thanks for the intensive look. As everyone is recommending that 2 hard days and 1 long run is adequate. i've formulated as below:

t :15*400 RP, 5*200

w : 30 min easy

t: 6*1000/6*800/4*1200 ( 90sec -2.5min / 200m jog recovery)

f: 30 min easy

s: Tempo run 20min

s: 25km long run / 2 hrs

Look forward to nail it, since its my first 5k ! Any more suggestions would be helpful. Also a lot of people were asking about my recent times. i ran a 1:18 debut 21k without preparation last year to see where i'm at. Rest i'm a miler , also run 800 .

100m - 11.6

200m - 24.1

400m - 53

I'm moving up to middle distance. I'm 22. Cross country in 3 months then taper to 1500m next year june ( Main track meet )

That's still three hard sessions plus a long run. You can improve this way, but at some point your progress may stall.

Sure I'll take that one on

Where is the sustained, steady-state runs? Moderate pace? Once again, too much Daniels and not enough high-end aerobic running.

I personally don't find a ton of value in steady state or moderate paced runs; so they wouldn't be part of my advice. I recognize that others might find value in that approach, thus my advice to the OP to read a bit about training so he could make his own decisions.

Also, if you read my advice on the tempo efforts, you will see that the OP would actually touch on lots of different paces via the different types of tempo workouts that I suggested, with work from marathon pace (early in the progression runs), half marathon pace (30 minute tempo runs) to 10k pace (late in the progression runs and possibly during cruise intervals).

But a Daniels approach, while not the only approach, is certainly a viable approach that has been used by many (me included) with a lot of success. In any event, even if you aren't a Daniels fan, I think we can agree that a Daniels approach would be better than the current approach that OP is taking.

That's the problem. Daniels for the masses. We spoon feed formulas instead of getting into the real nuances of training. I don't have time to help the OP but if you're going to write multiple paragraphs (as you often do) then let's get a real discussion going.