OSU vs Ohio high school

Agree that Stifel would be all on his own. After that, honestly it's really hard to say. My gut says always bet on the college guys (age, experience, etc.) but there's no doubt this Ohio high school class is exceptionally talented. Seeing how Kreft and Horton ran at MMOC, and then seeing how OSU ran at Joe Piane (They got last but no Stifel) man. It could be close.

Also depends what sort of race. If you just throw the high schoolers in a big college race like Joe Piane, Stifel is going to carry OSU with the low sitck. Dual meet? Going to be pretty tight (although what dual meet isn't?).

OSU 3-5 (if you add in Stifel) all ran 25:40-26:00 at Joe Piane, and that is a fast course. If they ran like that, I would give it to the high schoolers. However, if everyone is running their best, I feel like OSU takes it

This is all hypothetically looking at times. However, if you start talking about these groups actually being in a race together, you have to consider the high schoolers racing like there's nothing to lose vs. OSU running with nothing to gain/pure hate.

Still, I probably give it to the Buckeyes. I mean after all, they didn't come to Columbus to play school, they came to play cross-country.

How has Ohio State become this bad at cross country?

I really thought they looked like they were coming back up the past couple years. They had some solid seasons back around 2010. This year has not been great so far. Bad result at Vandy and Joe Piane, and with Stifel not racing at the latter, wonder if they might be red shirting him? He had an excellent CC season last year.

However, still confusing. They were getting a good chunk of the talent out of Ohio seemingly every year, although that appears like it is starting to slow (Iowa State has somehow swooped in and is probably profiting off of Ohio talent more than any other school in the country right now)

For a while, OSU seemed to get essentially whoever they wanted out of the State, but less and less lately, perhaps due to the poor results. Remember, Ohio State didn't even get Stifel out of high school; he was at Belmont first and transferred. Hopefully they figure things out soon, Ohio produces some great talent out of high school, but there really is not any in-state university that is making much out of that talent (not to slight Dayton and Miami (OH), they have solid mid-major programs right now)

It's crazy to me that Ohio State is not currently the best team in Ohio. I actually just checked, and I didn't believe it at first, they aren't even ranked in their region right now! That's insane. According the the all-time week to week regional rankings on USTFCCCA page, this is the first time since they started keeping track in 2010.

OSU has all the resources and potential to become a powerhouse over the next 5-10 years. Considering the local talent available, the lack of other in-state schools with comparable athletics resources, and the appeal of the university itself, very attractive. They're a few steps behind their competition in the Big Ten and the Great Lakes region, but who knows. If I was looking to take over a program and make something big happen (something like Coach Fox at Syracuse) Ohio State could be ripe for that sort of rise.

Circa 2013 I looked at Ohio State's recruits and thought they were about to become pretty competitive, at least top half in the big 10. It never happened (in fact, they got worse) and I now assume it never will.

It’s really sad that this question even seems reasonable to ask. Why anyone continues to go there is beyond me.

Ohio coach wrote:

It’s really sad that this question even seems reasonable to ask. Why anyone continues to go there is beyond me.

As one runner from the University of Cincinnati (go Bearcats!) once said to me about this “Every high schooler in the state of Ohio has a massive boñer for Ohio State”

B1G fan wrote:

Circa 2013 I looked at Ohio State's recruits and thought they were about to become pretty competitive, at least top half in the big 10. It never happened (in fact, they got worse) and I now assume it never will.

Agreed. Looks like underdevlopment, injuries, and losing some guys (remember how good Elswick was in high school?) seem to be the plague right now. Sad, they landed some really good dudes in 2013/14/15.

Supertramp wrote:

B1G fan wrote:

Circa 2013 I looked at Ohio State's recruits and thought they were about to become pretty competitive, at least top half in the big 10. It never happened (in fact, they got worse) and I now assume it never will.

Agreed. Looks like underdevlopment, injuries, and losing some guys (remember how good Elswick was in high school?) seem to be the plague right now. Sad, they landed some really good dudes in 2013/14/15.

Maybe they went through puberty late?

When Gary was there, got ripped for recruiting almost exclusively from Ohio. Since then, Dennis gets criticized for not developing runners. Everyone always thinks they can do it better if they were at Ohio State.

School up north wrote:

When Gary was there, got ripped for recruiting almost exclusively from Ohio. Since then, Dennis gets criticized for not developing runners. Everyone always thinks they can do it better if they were at Ohio State.

And everyone is right.

High School runners have gone to Ohio State to stagnate or get worse for years and years now. This is why the top guys in the state didn't even consider going there this year.

OSU has a poor history of researching before and during recruiting. They have not normally looked at kids as a 4:12 kid on 75+ mpw and overracing versus a 4:15 kid on 30 mpw with few races. They only see 4:12 is faster than 4:15 so this is the guy. Many of the stagnant guys would have been so most anywhere. This is not intended to let them off the hook with poor development, just pointing out that they have not done the best job of recruiting either.

Ohio high school top 5 would wipe the floor with Ohio State in a 5k CC race. Might not even take the top 5 to do it. A team made up of any in about the top 8-10 from Ohio could beat Ohio State in a 5k cc race. The top 5 though? They would destroy Ohio State.

ohio guy wrote:

OSU has a poor history of researching before and during recruiting. They have not normally looked at kids as a 4:12 kid on 75+ mpw and overracing versus a 4:15 kid on 30 mpw with few races. They only see 4:12 is faster than 4:15 so this is the guy. Many of the stagnant guys would have been so most anywhere. This is not intended to let them off the hook with poor development, just pointing out that they have not done the best job of recruiting either.

Ohio State tried this year. They contacted all the top guys. The problem is Ohio State needs to turn it around before those top guys will give it a shot, but it's hard for Ohio State to turn it around if those top guys don't give it a shot.

I agree with you but until then they should probably try to get as many good solid guys who are undertrained and underraced and develop enough to hopefully attract the top guys who are not fried coming out of HS.

Hindsight is 20-20 but it seems easy to predict many of their recruits stagnation.

ohio guy wrote:

I agree with you but until then they should probably try to get as many good solid guys who are undertrained and underraced and develop enough to hopefully attract the top guys who are not fried coming out of HS.

Hindsight is 20-20 but it seems easy to predict many of their recruits stagnation.

Sounds good, but it doesn't often work out with that philosophy. In high school the only time a kid is under raced is due to injury or illness. If they are undertrained, that seems good, but then you don't know if they can handle the mileage even if upped slowly. Also, you don't know if they like running all that much. Most of the time, the kid who runs 70 or more in high school really really likes it. That is key to improvement in college. If I were a college coach, I'd rather have a kid who ran 70 in the summer and 60s in season. Would have to be a kid who also had good times. I then might take that kid up to 100+ by the time he graduates from college. If a 35-40 MPW kid comes into college, he might find upping to 50 and then 60 and then more to be drudgery.

It does not mean I am right, but I disagree. I have seen your logic time and again, primarily as an excuse for HS coaches to run the shiiit out their athletes. There are plenty, well at least some, HS programs who run enough mileage to show they can handle it (45-50 mpw in off-season, in my eyes) and run only 5-6 cross-country races and each distance in track 2-3 times each season without doubling on any one day. A thorough coach who will go the extra mile recruiting can discover those with drive and undertrained, but OSU has not had any of these coaches. These potential developing kids exist, but most college coaches will not take the time to find out who they are, especially at OSU.

ohio guy wrote:

It does not mean I am right, but I disagree. I have seen your logic time and again, primarily as an excuse for HS coaches to run the shiiit out their athletes. There are plenty, well at least some, HS programs who run enough mileage to show they can handle it (45-50 mpw in off-season, in my eyes) and run only 5-6 cross-country races and each distance in track 2-3 times each season without doubling on any one day. A thorough coach who will go the extra mile recruiting can discover those with drive and undertrained, but OSU has not had any of these coaches. These potential developing kids exist, but most college coaches will not take the time to find out who they are, especially at OSU.

100% completely agree.

Buckeyes looked MUCH better yesterday at Pre-Nats ... albeit in the unseeded race.

http://www.rtspt.com/events/ncaa/prenats17/mp/#event3

Stifel 24:36

Wood 24:38

Lomong 24:52

Leitch 24:52

Mandel 25:04

Not amazing but not the embarrassment they have been up to this point in the season. This is pretty much the first time they've rolled out anything close to thier best lineup. Maybe we give Khadevis a chance? See how they do at B1G and see how he recurits?

The boys seemed to peak at All-Ohio the past 2 years ...