2003 Paris WC 5k

Wouldn't shock me.

Eyebrows wrote:

In the recap, Letsrun mentions that "chances are good that one or two of the guys in this race were using" EPO.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't over half. given the times and the testing of the era.

I find that accusation to be prejudice and disgusting. The fact they stated that EPO was possibly the reason why the runners ran so fast, without any proof or facts to support their statement, is just bad journalism.

Fact: none of the runners tested positive. Period.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

I find that accusation to be prejudice and disgusting. The fact they stated that EPO was possibly the reason why the runners ran so fast, without any proof or facts to support their statement, is just bad journalism.

Fact: none of the runners tested positive. Period.

The exact opposite. If we ignored the elephant in the room, that would be bad journalism. The baseball journalists from 20 years ago and maybe the NFL ones of today are the ones who should be ashamed.

Come on, rojo!

You type up this great literary piece only to taint it with allegations, due to the circumstances at the time.

Why was the race so fast?

Simply put, three of the fastest track runners to ever run professional track were in the race. That is why the race was so fast.

It's no different than the rio women's 10000m race, where three women ran under 30 seconds, and every women in the field ran a PR! Why did that happen? Simply put, Ayana made it a blazing race, which coerced the other runners to run fast. So that entire field took EPO, too? FOH

None of the runners tested positive past, present or future, and their times have always been consistent with running fast. So there was no reason for you to type up an EPO claim, which is disrespectful to the legacy of the race, and to the great runners who ran it.

No, rojo is right. To ignore the impact EPO has had on endurance sports in general, ESPECIALLY during the late 90s early 00s, would be terrible journalism. Stick your head in the sand all you want, but the fact is that era (and the cynic in me thinks every era) was significantly influenced by doping.

The article does not baselessly call out individual runners, it just references the general cloud cast by EPO during that period (IMO the tail-end of the unfettered, pre-microdising EPO era).

scorpion_runner wrote:

None of the runners tested positive past, present or future, and their times have always been consistent with running fast. So there was no reason for you to type up an EPO claim, which is disrespectful to the legacy of the race, and to the great runners who ran it.

Some people know things about the sport and some are on the outside, naive and ignorant. That's why the Brojos are writing the articles and you are trolling the message board.

Period. period.Except Abderrahim Goumri of course.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

Eyebrows wrote:

In the recap, Letsrun mentions that "chances are good that one or two of the guys in this race were using" EPO.

I'd be surprised if it wasn't over half. given the times and the testing of the era.

I find that accusation to be prejudice and disgusting. The fact they stated that EPO was possibly the reason why the runners ran so fast, without any proof or facts to support their statement, is just bad journalism.

Fact: none of the runners tested positive. Period.

"chances are good that one or two of the guys in this race were using" EPO.

You could say that for every single world class distance race in modern times.

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Period. period.

Except Abderrahim Goumri of course.

Scorpion_runner wrote:

I find that accusation to be prejudice and disgusting. The fact they stated that EPO was possibly the reason why the runners ran so fast, without any proof or facts to support their statement, is just bad journalism.

Fact: none of the runners tested positive. Period.

I was referring to the top 3 guy, because allegations were being thrown at them.

I'll let the author weigh in if he wants but that isn't how it reads. That whole section wasn't about why the 3 top guys went so fast it was "Why was Paris 2013 so fast?"You read:"Add all that together and chances are good that one or two of the guys in this race were using."As if "one or two guys" meant had to mean one or two of the top three. There's no reason to read it that way. To do so ignores the context I quoted above and, most tellingly, ignores the sentence that followed:"Just as a rising tide lifts all boats, if a few guys in the field are stronger because of EPO, that affects the entire race."

scorpion_runner wrote:

Abdoujaparov wrote:

Period. period.

Except Abderrahim Goumri of course.

I was referring to the top 3 guy, because allegations were being thrown at them.

Abdoujaparov wrote:

I'll let the author weigh in if he wants but that isn't how it reads. That whole section wasn't about why the 3 top guys went so fast it was "Why was Paris 2013 so fast?"

You read:

"Add all that together and chances are good that one or two of the guys in this race were using."

As if "one or two guys" meant had to mean one or two of the top three. There's no reason to read it that way. To do so ignores the context I quoted above and, most tellingly, ignores the sentence that followed:

"Just as a rising tide lifts all boats, if a few guys in the field are stronger because of EPO, that affects the entire race."

scorpion_runner wrote:

I was referring to the top 3 guy, because allegations were being thrown at them.

I disagree, because that is not the perception! The true focus of his piece is Bekele and Kipchoge ( as well as EL G ) because of the upcoming Berlin race. If the Berlin race weren't in play, then there would be no write up on the 2003 race.

'On Sunday, Kenenisa Bekele and Eliud Kipchoge will face each other at the 2017 BMW Berlin Marathon. It will mark the 23rd time the two legends of the sport have squared off, and none of the previous 22 have been quite as hyped as this one, with Bekele, Kipchoge, and Kenyan star Wilson Kipsang attacking the world record in a marathon for the ages.

We’ll spend plenty of time this week previewing the action in Berlin, but before Bekele and Kipchoge renew acquaintances in the German capital, we wanted to revisit one of their earliest — and best — matchups, at the 2003 World Championships in Paris. "

So let's not BS ourselves here.

And again, no one is thinking about the other guys in that race, because they weren't the ones pushing the pace. The top 3 guys were. Bekele and Kipchoge were working together( they were under the same agent at the time, and cram said that they discussed what tactic they were going to use) throughout the entire race to to tire out EL G. Again, those 3 GUYS were pushing the speed.

So, when the microscope is placed on why the race was so fast, and the author states that EPO could have been one of the reasons, then the top 3 guys are going to be placed under the microscope as well. It's indirect finger pointing. That is what it is. It's basically asking why were the top 3 guys so fast? That is the perception without a doubt.

Abdoujaparov wrote:

I'll let the author weigh in if he wants but that isn't how it reads. That whole section wasn't about why the 3 top guys went so fast it was "Why was Paris 2013 so fast?"

You read:

"Add all that together and chances are good that one or two of the guys in this race were using."

As if "one or two guys" meant had to mean one or two of the top three. There's no reason to read it that way. To do so ignores the context I quoted above and, most tellingly, ignores the sentence that followed:

"Just as a rising tide lifts all boats, if a few guys in the field are stronger because of EPO, that affects the entire race."

Don't bother trying to explain things to scorpion_runner. The rest of us know how to read.

let the brojos write wrote:

scorpion_runner wrote:

None of the runners tested positive past, present or future, and their times have always been consistent with running fast. So there was no reason for you to type up an EPO claim, which is disrespectful to the legacy of the race, and to the great runners who ran it.

Some people know things about the sport and some are on the outside, naive and ignorant. That's why the Brojos are writing the articles and you are trolling the message board.

Believe whatever you want about doping regarding whichever athlete in whatever race, I don't care. But don't pretend that the brojos are all-knowing experts on...well, anything, really.

Hey Rojo, Hicham El Guerrouj did avenge the loss in Paris and win the Olympic 5000m and 1500m. The three locked horns again and El G on the bigger stage. I love how you make it out like Paris was the bigger one. When the Athens Olympics clearly were the bigger one to win. Weak journalism

rojo wrote:

Scorpion_runner wrote:

I find that accusation to be prejudice and disgusting. The fact they stated that EPO was possibly the reason why the runners ran so fast, without any proof or facts to support their statement, is just bad journalism.

Fact: none of the runners tested positive. Period.

The exact opposite. If we ignored the elephant in the room, that would be bad journalism. The baseball journalists from 20 years ago and maybe the NFL ones of today are the ones who should be ashamed.

Do you know what bad journalism is? All the sloppy spelling and grammar errors you make all because you are too lazy to self-edit and are protected by the banner of "rag-tag band of journalists".

You wouldn't last one day on a traditional city newspaper.

Take some pride, man. Take some pride in the best education money can buy = St. Marks High School for Privileged Boys.