Daniels' tempo table

General rule is that tempo pace should be 1 min slower than your 1 mile pace. So if you can run the mile in 6 mins, then your tempo pace should 7:00 mins per mile.

Now, if you're doing a tempo run, and find the pace to be too hot, go by the 15 second reduction rule: Just drop off to a 7:15 min pace, which would be a slow tempo run. If you feel like going faster, then use the 15 second rule again, and increase your pace to a 6:45 min pace, which would be a fast tempo run.

You can do a Google search of something like Jack Daniels tempo run chart, and you'll see the table.

or try this... wrote:

You can do a Google search of something like Jack Daniels tempo run chart, and you'll see the table.

I'm bored this morning. Here it is:

or try this... wrote:

or try this... wrote:

You can do a Google search of something like Jack Daniels tempo run chart, and you'll see the table.

I'm bored this morning. Here it is:

https://minneapolisrunning.com/benefits-of-threshold-workouts/

Awesome. Thanks

There's a lot more stuff in the second edition that would be good for you to have. Just spend the $2 at Barnes and Noble.com

My second edition is falling apart, but I will duct tape that thing back together because it is essentially my running bible. Much like the Godfather trilogy, I am making believe the third installment never happened.

Here's a link to a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet that calculates paces based on the Daniels' tables. The Tempo paces are on line 49.

http://www.electricblues.com/archive/DanielsTables3-00-00.xls

Smoove wrote:

My second edition is falling apart, but I will duct tape that thing back together because it is essentially my running bible. Much like the Godfather trilogy, I am making believe the third installment never happened.

Is really different (and I mean better) than the 3rd? I have the 3rd and think the info there is good, but I consider the plans to be totally unusable. Specifically, I can't handle the volume of fast reps he has in phase II, and would never attempt the back-to-back workouts in phase III of his plans.

I honestly have not read the third, but have read enough here and other places to know that there are significant differences. I think many of the change were made not based on scientific studies, but rather in response to criticisms, to incorporate approaches that are more popular these days than when he wrote his initial editions, and, frankly, to justify a third edition so he could sell more books.

Among the changes:

- no more table for longer tempo runs;

- an increased emphasis on cruise intervals over straight tempo runs;

- the addition of marathon pace runs into plans for shorter distance races;

- the inclusion of back to back workouts.

He does address some of these concepts in his prior edition, but there seems to be a change of emphasis on those things. For example, while he said both cruise intervals and tempo runs are equally effective physiologically, he seemed to really advocate for the 20 minute tempo run in the 2nd edition based on the idea that it required greater mental focus that would have race day benefits. I think he now probably leans toward cruise intervals because they feel less stressful. Similarly, he hit on back-to-backs in the 2nd, but really didn't emphasize them.

Other things are just plain contrary to what he previously said. For example, he basically said in the second edition that marathon paced runs do nothing for you physiologically and he only included them in M training plans for purposes of locking into race pace and some sort of amorphous mental toughness concept. He now includes them in most training plans.

Thanks, Smoove. I'll probably order a used copy of the second edition just for fun. If it were available for Kindle I'd do it right now.

or try this... wrote:

. . . Specifically, I can't handle the volume of fast reps he has in phase II, and would never attempt the back-to-back workouts in phase III of his plans.

I haven't read the 3rd edition, but in the 1st and 2nd the number of reps for a workout was an upper limit, not a singular goal.

Without knowing the specifics of your training I'd also add that many runners struggle with the hard days because the easy days aren't easy enough. I take Daniels "easy pace" to be a not-to-exceed speed limit, rather than a goal pace.

Any thoughts specifically on why he dropped the tempo table from 3ed? I get the reasons behind the other changes, but this one change I don't understand. The only good reason I can think of is that he changed his mind and renounced the concept of slowing threshold pace for longer tempos. If that is the reason (as opposed to marketing, editing, etc.) then I'd really like to know, as should any Daniels follower.

Actually no reason not to ask him direct, if he responds to the public. I'll look him up if no-one knows the answer here.

argv wrote:

Actually no reason not to ask him direct, if he responds to the public. I'll look him up if no-one knows the answer here.

In the 3rd edition he used cruise intervals much more than continuous T runs, which may be the reason for not including that chart.

I've assumed because he was getting away from straight tempo efforts generally any way.

It could also just be to distinguish editions.

I sound down on the guy, but I'm a die-hard Daniels guy. I train by his principles (as espoused in the first two editions) and coach some people based on them.

But I'm going to rely upon the words of the in-his-prime Daniels, especially since so many of he other changes seem to be reactive instead of being proactive and based on scientific studies.

I would agree with Smoove in that the 2nd edition is his best and I have wore out one and now on my second copy of that one. In looking at the 3rd edition I think he further tried to simplify things for the masses. Taking out the tempo charts as well as taking out a lot of the mixed/combo workouts in the training schedule section. I don't blame him for doing this as I do think with the population he works with now primarily the 3rd edition makes sense.

As for the Marathon pace training I also see each edition included more Marathon pace runs for the shorter race distances. This does appear to be different from when he was coaching more elites and in college. However I do think this change has merit but of course every athlete or coach needs to find what works for them and their athletes.