Scholarship conditional on NXN

It's normal. It's a business, and he's playing it smart. He's testing to see how you can perform under pressure. If you can perform there, then it shows that you can perform at the conference meet. They only have so much money, and teams need guys that can score points and run fast when it matters.

I'd do it on a course I can relate to like VCP (FL NE) . Cool weather, good competition require good race plan and demanding sub 18m racing. Just get it done.

IMO, also look elsewhere. Possibly a shortsighted coach not willing to look at enough factors related to your potential. Plus, how good of a coach are they if they don't develop talent but instead rely resumes? Bigger question, what do you think of the program, teammates, and academics? Hope you land in a good place!

I am looking elsewhere and have much better offers. This one is a complete low ball--30 percent when others are 40-full. I have no doubt I can get it done. Just angry that with my Spring times that should be clear and I shouldn't be thrown into the hunger games with 20 grand on the line for one race. What if I am sick that day or just off.

This is not even the best program. But it is the best school and current top choice. Another problem is that if I wait for NXN, I miss early signing. Id have to tell my second choice (full ride) to wait and I am not sure how well that would go over.

Obviously a coach that has been burned and doesnt realize this is not cool. Guessing its a new coach, because coaches with experience and look at the track time and progress and extrapolate potential without a problem. A coach worth thier salt can evaluate an athlete and not toss athletes into "the hunger games". Symbolic of a new inexperienced coach. Run, run far away from such crap.

messedup wrote:

I am looking elsewhere and have much better offers. This one is a complete low ball--30 percent when others are 40-full. I have no doubt I can get it done. Just angry that with my Spring times that should be clear and I shouldn't be thrown into the hunger games with 20 grand on the line for one race. What if I am sick that day or just off.

This is not even the best program. But it is the best school and current top choice. Another problem is that if I wait for NXN, I miss early signing. Id have to tell my second choice (full ride) to wait and I am not sure how well that would go over.

messedup wrote:

What do you think of a coach who offers a small scholarship but offers to double based on NXN results. Is it normal to put 20K on once race rather then solid results from Jr. year. Is this just a twisted head game????? Is this normal or a signal that the coach is masochistic thriving on putting a runner under extreme pressure.

Watch yo mouth befo yo ass be missin.

You be hanging in Chaloteville lately Mr. Schultz? Control the hate.

If you have better offers, including a full ride, put that back on the coach who's only offering 30% that it isn't good enough. Tell them you aren't going to gamble 20k on the off chance of getting sick and you aren't going to risk those other offers by waiting past signing day.

As others have said, the coach came up with that goal based on seeing you're capable of it through your progression through last spring. As an athlete you're most likely already worth the full offer they made to you for nxn performance. This is a bit of an insurance policy that if you don't look as good on paper to people evaluating their recruiting class, the coach will have some extra cash to bring in an extra body later in the season.

this isn't a game. don't assume you know what is going on as it relates to running a division 1 track and cross country program. you don't know what resources the coach has. don't assume all things are equal with the other "better teams." (in fact, perhaps his plan to get better is to get good kids like you on smaller offers so he can get MORE GOOD KIDS LIKE YOU, and beat the other teams currently ahead of him.)

If scholarship offer is your #1 criteria, make that clearly known. it is adult conversation time. have it with the coach in question. either you want to go to school there or you don't. It is a total package, academic institution and track program, and scholarship offer. that is the coach, he runs the program, he has told you how he operates..

Sure it would be nice if you could pick the location of school A, the scholarship offer of school B, the running trails of school C, the coach of school D, and the success of school E. But you can't. So find the best combination, but don't expect someone to change what they are.

Don't get an exaggerated view of the differences between schools. Talk to current students at these places (in the xc/track programs) and find out what their experiences are like. It's probably much the same across the schools you're looking at. I would lean toward the largest financial offer in hand when choosing among several similar programs. Your student loans will stay with you after you graduate, so minimizing them is a pretty good idea. If you're so wealthy that this doesn't matter, why are you worrying about the size of the scholarship so much?

You do realize that many of the "best" programs in the country will reduce or yank your scholarship for not performing at conference & NCAA's right kid? Yeah, there are "rules" against this...see how far that gets you...there's always a way. Trust me. Get used to the real world now kid.

It's hard to recruit a XC kid. Courses chsnge. So unless you know a course specifically times don't really mean anything.

I coached a kid getting low offers, books, maybe a couple thousand. They made footlocker and everywhere offered full rides.

It's part of the game. Coaches are lazy recruiters and don't really know what else to base your scholarship on.

Did they mention "Option C", which is a test of character where if you go whine about it on Let's Run like a mewling little pusscookie, they reduce it to nothing?

You're right, it isn't a game, its a sum of money that isn't too far off the amount of money this person will have earned a year out from graduation.

If the coach is offering a certain amount of money now, but saying more will be available should you hit some benchmark, that money is either on the table right this minute, or the OP hitting that mark means someone else is coming off scholarship/they're rescinding an offer to someone else. The OP said their spring track times make the NXN goal very realistic and attainable, which the Coach should also know, which means they have a reasonable expectation they have to have that scholarship amount available. This sounds like the exact type of situation where the coach is more worried about what their recruiting class looks like to outside observers, so if he can't get a 'top XX at NXN' runner, he'll get 2 recruits instead..

OP, absolutely be honest and upfront with the coach. Tell them their school is your #1 choice before monetary considerations. Tell them they have the lowest scholarship offer of any school you're looking at, and certainly tell them you are confident in your ability to hit that NXN goal, but you aren't comfortable putting 20k on the line when catching a cold could forfeit it.

Scholarships being conditional on specific race results (not talking about times, but place finishes) isn't unheard of, but its definitely not standard operating procedure for most quality programs.

Just coming fresh off the recruiting process and in my opinion you want to stay away from these coaches. These kind of guys look at you as a person with a times and dont see you for much more than that. That being said are you gonna want that kind of coach if you get injured or are having a bad season? Go to a place were you feel care about you as an individual and see potential in you. This will be much better for your running career in the long run.

This thing sounds like a communication issue. It's not unreasonable for a coach to have the idea of "X amount of money for NXN qualifiers, Y amount for good runners who didn't make it." It's the same as saying a sub-9:00 would get more than 9:00+. The way this fact was communicated to you wasn't great, if this is the state you're in now.

That he made it conditional in a conversation could be a lapse of thinking, poor comprehension on your part, poor communication on his part, or an intersection of each that is making this point a bigger deal than it needs to be.

End of the day, you either like the school or you don't. You either run fast or you don't. Not earning a big scholarship for not making NXN is not a punishment.