During a marathon block, do you attempt to gain fitness or just extend current fitness?

*bump*

That is a more complicated question than it seems to be. Based on the info you provided, it would not be unreasonable to expect to improve in fitness during your 12 week training block. But as a practical matter, marathons often turn out to be slower than the conversion tables would suggest they should be since the tables really predict a race in which nothing goes wrong, and in the marathon things tend to be imperfect and the imperfections tend to be magnified because of the scale of the event.

Under a best case scenario, you would get some intermediate races in to use as benchmarks for changes in your fitness, and those intermediate races would be of a longer variety (a 15k or 10 miler), and then you could use those races to establish a goal pace for the marathon.

Your relatively low mileage approach is a little bit of a curveball too. You were really pretty low for your half, and while you will be low for your full too, the increase in mileage will still be pretty substantial, which I think cuts in favor of a more aggressive approach.

Were I you, I would probably stick with the 2:53 approach unless I got in a race or two in the interim that suggested you were capable of much more.

i had a 12 week avg of 35 mpw and ran 2:52 in my first marathon. I ran a 1:18 half marathon 6 weeks out from that race. i did a 20 miler and a 22-miler at around 6:50 pace and usually did a 8-10 miler mid-week. Otherwise, everything else was 4-5 miles, 2 days off a week. these days i do 50-60 mpw and have gotten down to 2:32 in my 4th marathon but more miles would helpi know it looks easy on paper to just up your miles, but your goal should be to run under 3 hours in my opinion. You'll be surprised what happens to your legs/body in those last 4 miles if you've never run one. i'd aim to get at least (4) 20-mile runs in and then you may be able to take a crack at 2:50-52, but your body might really hate you for upping your mileage after being so low for a while. 4-6 weeks out from the race are very important for mileage and MP wrkts

biogen wrote:

Noob question.

I just ran a 1:22 half, which equates to about a 2:53 marathon.

I've never raced a marathon, but I've completed one without racing it. I have one in 16 weeks I would like to fully race.

So the question: should I train as if I'm targeting 2:53 or go a bit more aggressive, like 2:50 or something? Play it by ear as I go? What would you do?

Course is two HM loops, extremely flat (Erie, PA). I'm 34, almost 35, a newish runner, and haven't plateaued yet. Average mpw for the 12 weeks leading into my half was only 32 (Basically just a lot of quality. Minimal wu/cd. Generous rest days. Time is a big constraint.). I'll probably be able to average 45-50 for the block, with a 60 or 65 peak.

Thanks for the advice guys this is great!

Yeah I think 2:50 might be too ambitious now that I'm thinking more about it. The conditions for the half were super ideal.

I did run a 10K and a 5K recently as well and if you take out the taper weeks I did for those, mpw was more like 36, so hopefully the jump in mileage won't be too burdensome. I had a 49 mile week two weeks before the half.

I think perhaps my current plan will be to go out at 6:40 and speed up at the half if I'm feeling good, and if not, just try to hang on for sub 3. Will adjust the plan as workouts indicate and maybe look for a half to run 6 weeks out. I've got a 10K in June, but that's far away and short.

Will also try to hit at least 4 20 milers with one of them 22.

do the half around 6 weeks out and then use a conservative conversion to marathon goal time. conservative because given your current mpw your half marathon - full marathon conversion factor will be higher than for an optimally trained guy (penalty for low mpw increasing in distance of race).

I believe a sub 3 is ambitious enough. Not many of us broke 3 on our first attempt despite a low 1:20 half. You'll be upping mileage at a good clip & don't want to be humping the intensity at the same time. Keep us posted.

Thanks for providing a response that makes the reading of letsrun worthwhile.

OP, keep us posted is right.

Will keep the thread updated with any races I do and right before and after the full. I looked into halves ~6 weeks out, and it could be dicey. There's not much in the tri-state area. My wife's parents are in DC, and there's not much there either (who knew late summer's not a popular time for halves!!).

My parents are in the Boston area and there looks to be an almost ideal one in Rockland, MA (Cape Cod) that is a full loop with lots of rolling hills, attracts several hundred people, is certified, *and* I'd place top 5 to boot:

http://www.yukanrun.com/TripleThreat.html

But convincing my wife to go to MA just for the half could be tricky even with the excuse of using it to visit family as well... it might not happen :/. I'm already forcing a trip to Erie, PA as it is. We'll see.

Boston38 wrote:

OP, keep us posted is right.

2:50:58. whoo!

I didn't post updates because I was fairly disappointed by my progress (37:39, 17:41, and 4:54 (mile) in the runup. But I'm super happy with the results.

I decided to train for a 2:50 (~6:29 pace) but go out at 2:55 (~6:40 pace) and hope to finish at 2:53 if feeling good. But I kept hitting mid and low 6:30 splits and felt great so I just went with it. 1:26:07/1:24:51 splits. I was never limited cardio wise and never hit the wall. Limiting factor was purely musculoskeletal. I had enough left in me to finish the last .2 at a 6 flat pace.

Training went both good and bad. Bad was that volume was low. Having a toddler and summer vacations and a gnarly ear infection (my daughter's) interfered big time. High 40s average mpw peaking at 54 :/. The good was that I got in 10 runs over 18 with 7 of them being 20-22. The last two were 20 miles with 10 of them being at 6:27 pace (1 off/1 on and 2 off/2 on).

So yeah, super happy!

Fun fact: 8 of those long runs were on treadmills in my apt building (high quality $10K mills) at like 9:30 or 10 pm. I watched lots of movies.

*yay*

Rooting for you!

good stuff!