88 Days until Marathon - Coach me, LRC!!

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DKnightXC1@yahoo.com

I'd be happy to help

Below is my log for the 12 weeks leading into Chicago last year. My training cycle included 6 weeks before this where I basically did 5k training (1 interval session at 5kpace per week, 1 tempo run per week, 1 long run per week). Honestly, I live in Central Florida, so it was really tough to train through the heat of the summer. Also, I increased my volume, so my quality days suffered a little bit. You can see from my last three weeks that I did a major taper that is longer than I would recommend for anyone else - I was just adjusting on the fly based on what my body needed.

This did not result in a sub-2:30 effort, but I was on 2:28 flat pace until my calves cramped up on me forcing me to stop 5-6 times over the last 10k to stretch. Still, 2:30 high is close enough to what you were asking for, and given that I was 43 on race day, I think this reflects an effort from the kind of runner that you are looking for.

13 20-Jul

12.25 miles easy

AM: 10 miles easy; PM: 6 miles easy

10 miles easy

2 miles up; 4 x 2 miles tempo - 10:48 (LD)(2:02); 10:53 (G)(2:20); 11:10 (G)(2:57); 11:12 (LD); 2 miles down

10.25 miles easy

21 miles easy

10 miles easy

14 27-Jul

10.25 miles easy

10.5 miles easy

2 mi up; 4 x 1 mile (5:15, 5:08, 5:13, 5:12) w/1:00 rest; 5:00 rest; 3 x 1 mile (5:14, 5:14, 5:14) w/1:00 rest; 2 mi down

10 miles easy

10 miles easy

2 mi up; 4 x 1 mile (5:24, 5:04, 5:13, 5:07) w/:60-:80 rest; 8 mi easy; 20 min tempo (5:25); 2.3 down

10.25 miles easy

15 3-Aug

7 miles easy

10.25 miles easy

2 mi up; 3 mi tempo (5:11, 5:26, 5:26); 3:00 rest; 3 mi tempo (5:12, 5:19, 5:42); 3:00 rest; 1 mi tempo (5:29); 1:30 rest; 1 mi tempo (5:25)

10.5 miles easy

8.5 miles easy

ABORTED MARATHON PACED RUN: 2 mile warm up; 6 miles @ marathon pace (5:35) (supposed to be 12-13); 6 miles easy

8 miles easy 0.

16 10-Aug

9 miles easy

AM: 10 miles easy; PM: 6 miles easy

2.5 mi up; 5 x 1000 (3:04.4 avg); 6 mi down

6 miles easy

6.5 miles easy

Celebration of Running 5k (15:28.5)

20.25 miles easy

17 17-Aug

9 miles easy

10.25 miles easy

2 mi up; 7 x 1 mile at tempo (5:26, 5:23, 5:23, 5:25, 5:25, 5:27, 5:25, 5:33) (5:26 avg) w/1:00 rest; 3.75 down

10 miles easy

6.25 miles easy

2 mile warm up; 2 x 2 mi tempo w/2:00 rest (10:27.8, 10:42.7);

10.25 easy (Waterwitch Loop); 2 mi tempo (11:03); 3.75 easy

10 miles easy

18 24-Aug

7 miles easy

10 miles easy

2 mi up; 3 x 2 mile tempo [(10:53.5), (11:02.2), (11:06)] w/2:00 rest, 2 x 1 mile tempo (5:32.4, 5:28.3) w/1:00 rest; 2 mi down

25 miles easy

6.25 miles easy

2 mi up; 9 mi @ mp (5:42); 3:00 rest; 2mi @ mp (5:40); 2:00 rest; 1 mi @ mp (5:46?); 2 mi down

6 miles easy

19 31-Aug

12 miles easy

12 miles easy

Aborted tempo - 8 miles easy

22 miles easy

10 miles easy

AM: 16 miles easy; PM: 5 miles easy

15 miles easy

20 7-Sep

6 miles easy

8.75 mi up; 6 x 1 mi [5:22, (1:00), 5:19 (1:00), 5:24 (1:00), 5:31 (3:00), 5:25 (2:00), 5:28]; 1.25 down

6 miles easy

6 miles easy

6 miles easy

Rock 'N' Run 5k (16:09)

22 miles easy

21 14-Sep

6 miles easy

6 miles easy

11 miles with modest pick ups

6 miles easy

6 miles easy

13.1 miles @ marathon pace (1:15:35)

8 miles easy

22 21-Sep

6 miles easy

6 miles easy

6.25 miles easy

3 miles easy, 2 miles tempo (5:20, 5:28 - was supposed to be 3), 2 miles easy, 1 mile tempo (was supposed to be 3 - 5:33 was 5k race pace), 5 miles easy

Off

22 miles easy

6 miles easy

23 28-Sep

6 miles easy

1.5 up; 3 x 1 mile tempo (5:22 (1:00), 5:28 (:90), 5:33 (:90) .5 uphill at 5:40); .75 down

Off

7 miles easy

Off

8 miles easy

Accelerating pace run (6:45, 6:31, 6:15, 5:50, 5:36, 5:29, 6:51, 6:53, 6:59, 7:12)

24 5-Oct

6 miles easy

2.25 mi up; 4 x 1200 @ tempo pace (3:57, 3:52, 3:57, 3:55) w/2:00 rest; 1 mi down

6 miles easy

Off

4 miles easy

3 miles easy

Chicago Marathon (2:30:52)

Incidentally, this is based heavily on Daniels' marathon training plan - not the elite plan, which would kill me.

I'm the one you would want to assist you.

My training cycle is 6 weeks long and you would have exactly 2 cycles.

So far it worked excellent for a Japanese runner and I'll probably write my training concept in detail after his October marathon.

I'm not charging anything, because I'm trying to make a portfolio first.

I'll write each training day in detail when needed.

I'm very ambitious, so expect me to dedicate myself to your training.

If you are interested, I'll need your email.

George Ilie wrote:

My training cycle is 6 weeks long and you would have exactly 2 cycles.

6 week marathon cycle, eh? That's pretty... abbreviated. Please elaborate, I'm definitely curious.

what race?

FallMarathon wrote:

what race?

Detroit Marathon. Thanks for the responses so far. I see some workouts that I definitely like in the 12 weeks laid out above. Also - I am very curious about the 2 six week cycles. I will setup a new email account and post it on here later this evening when I get home.

Schuylkill wrote:

George Ilie wrote:

My training cycle is 6 weeks long and you would have exactly 2 cycles.

6 week marathon cycle, eh? That's pretty... abbreviated. Please elaborate, I'm definitely curious.

Actually is a "training cycle", not specifically for marathon, but for long distances starting from 5k.

The 6 weeks cycle has 3 rounds of 2 weeks each. Each round is focused either on strength, mileage or speed.

It is periodization, but on short bursts.

I don't know if it does make sense just from this description, so without the full picture may seem trivial.

For what it is worth, the workouts that I think had the biggest impact were the ones where two tempo sessions are broken up by a moderately long run. There is something that clicks in your brain when you are forced to do a second tempo session after doing a 6 to 8 mile run after your first tempo session. It takes some of the fear of the marathon away. I also imagine that there is a bit of a lengthening of the overall distance that comes from those workouts too. By that I mean that getting 18 miles with two separate tempo sessions in there, including one late in the run, seems more like a 20 or 22 mile run than it does an 18 mile run.

The marathon paced runs were the toughest for me. I did much better with those in my NYC training cycle. For those, I really like to find a half-marathon so that I can get the run in on a closed course with water on the course and other people around to keep me company.

George Ilie wrote:

I'm the one you would want to assist you.

My training cycle is 6 weeks long and you would have exactly 2 cycles.

So far it worked excellent for a Japanese runner and I'll probably write my training concept in detail after his October marathon.

I'm not charging anything, because I'm trying to make a portfolio first.

I'll write each training day in detail when needed.

I'm very ambitious, so expect me to dedicate myself to your training.

If you are interested, I'll need your email.

I look forward to hearing from you. I would like the program to start on Sunday if at all possible. I assume every detail is very important in a 3 week cycle, so please note that I have registered for a 5k race that I will be running this Tuesday. I also plan to race a 10 miler on August 6.

Yes, I like the two tempo sessions as well. I used to do what I called a "sandwich run" back in 2011 or so where I would start at Marathon pace +30s for the first third of the run, drop to MP -15s for the middle 3rd, and then back up to MP +30s for the finish. I like your inverted way better. Plus, it is a much tougher workout.

I am curious about the 6 week cycles so I am hoping to see what those are all about. If they don't look manageable or seem too "off the wall" for my tastes, then I will probably try to emulate what you have posted up above.

I think that I could hit a lot of the workouts that you posted, but I definitely have some work to do if I want to run some of the quicker stuff. You have workouts in your schedule that I don't think I could do as of yet. Thanks again.

This was my second time around with this training plan, so I think that took some of the intimidation away from it for me. When I first put the plan together for my first marathon, it seemed to me that I would never be able to complete it.

To be honest, a lot of my cruise intervals (the one mile repeats with 1:00 rest) were simply faster than they needed to be. Most of those should have been in the mid to high 5:20s, but I got carried away a couple of times and I also felt great on one of those workouts because I was in the middle of a prednisone cycle for plantar fasciitis.

The other thing is that as I said in my initial post, I had done a 6 week cycle of VO2max/5k paced intervals leading into these 12 weeks, so that made all of the tempo paced efforts feel more manageable. If you have been doing only easy distance, you might want to consider working in some 5k pace intervals in the first couple of weeks so that the tempo paced efforts don't feel so fast.

I have a question. Since there is no "one size fits all" training program, would you say you have more natural speed or more natural endurance? (Is your 5K PR 'better' than your longer PRs? Would you rather do hard 400s than 18 miles slow?) If yes to both questions, a program like Smoove's with little real speed work would be ideal. If not, you need something with more intensity, maybe like the other guy.

It's been a long time since I have approached times like yours and almost a decade since my last, and most satisfying, marathon. I'm definitely a speed type, so there were many failed attempts before figuring out that lots of tempos and miles and pretty much no speed was what I needed.

Dr. Smith wrote:

I have a question. Since there is no "one size fits all" training program, would you say you have more natural speed or more natural endurance?

Tough to say. I certainly enjoy the longer stuff more. Quarter repeats are dreadful and I have not even considered doing them since high school. However, 8-10 mile tempos aren't so bad. However, I always considered myself a "speed guy" back in the day. My HS PRs were 2:00/4:35/10:15.

With my current mileage (80s) and lack of workouts, I would say that I could run a mile somewhere in the 4:30-4:35 range, a 5k right around 15:30-15:45, and a half marathon in 1:13-1:14. I don't really know if that makes me a speed type or endurance type... Sorry for the long-winded non-answer.

MotorCityDreaming wrote:

mcityrunner@gmail.com

I look forward to hearing from you. I would like the program to start on Sunday if at all possible. I assume every detail is very important in a 3 week cycle, so please note that I have registered for a 5k race that I will be running this Tuesday. I also plan to race a 10 miler on August 6.

Now is supposed to check your email :)

George Ilie wrote:

MotorCityDreaming wrote:mcityrunner@gmail.com

I look forward to hearing from you. I would like the program to start on Sunday if at all possible. I assume every detail is very important in a 3 week cycle, so please note that I have registered for a 5k race that I will be running this Tuesday. I also plan to race a 10 miler on August 6.

Now is supposed to check your email :)

Sorry for the slow reply! I am vacationing up north and I am not on my phone as often as I normally would be. I have responded via email. I appreciate your thoroughness and look forward to seeing the spreadsheet.

Those recent workouts look strong. Some good training ideas from Smoove too. (And I'm sure the guy who's emailing you stuff is well intentioned, but I think it's important to find a plan very much tailored specifically to you).

I think you are in more like 1:10 shape for a fast, tapered, competitive half right now.

With the 10 mile alternating warmup you averaged ~5:38. In an evenly paced race setting with good competition I can't imagine you running slower than 5:25 pace for a half. (8-10 miles alternating mp & hmp is one of my favorite workouts).

Also the 3x5k-... yeah the rest is a bit long, but still that workout is normally slower than half marathon pace and you were averaging ~5:20

So bottom line, in my opinion, if training goes well you "should" be able to run ~5:45 pace for a marathon

My personal feeling is that you have the speed part of the equation pretty much covered and would benefit from longer workouts that force you to run marathon pace on tired legs.

These are some of the harder workouts that come to mind

Maybe (to borrow a bit from Canova)- 6 miles @85%mp (say~ 6:40-6:45), 3 miles @mp, 3 miles alternating 1 min fast/1 min "float" (still pretty quick), 3 miles @85%mp, 5miles @mp

Or a 4/3/2/1/3 cut down with .5 mile "float recoveries" (quick at 6:30-6:40 pace)... 4 miles @ 95%mp (maybe ~ 6:05), 3 miles @mp, 2 miles@hmp, 1 mile fast, 3 miles @mp. The overall average pace for the 15 miles will come out just a little slower than goal mp.

Smoove, can you please write how your 6 week cycle of 5K training looked like?

Thanks!