Brexit?

DiscoGary wrote:

OK Brits. What's up?

+1 but you posted it kinda late for them

I'm voting out.

Hi HardLoper!

The Brit wrote:

I'm voting out.

Will there also be a referendum on EPO cheats?

Most probably going to be an out vote, driven by fears of immigration.

The thing is, most immigrants come from outside the EU, so leaving probably won't actually lead to a fall in immigration.

Why? You won't get much economic freedom since you'll still trade with the EU and thus be subject to their requirements.

DiscoGary wrote:

OK Brits. What's up?

Voting out. The globalists are ruining our lives. An EU is the same thing that Hitler wanted. I don't want that. Soros is a Nazi. He and his globalist pals need to be taken down.

The Bilderbergers just finished up their meeting in Dresden. So many are on the Saudi Arabian payroll like America's General Patraeus.

Journalist Rob Dew chased after him in Dresden to question him and others.

Le veritable wrote:

Most probably going to be an out vote, driven by fears of immigration.

The thing is, most immigrants come from outside the EU, so leaving probably won't actually lead to a fall in immigration.

I could be wrong, but I would think the fears of immigration are only the tipping point and not the base drive of the movement.

At the end of the day, staying in the EU means giving up more of their say in what happens in their daily lives. By withdrawing from the EU, no longer would the British be subject to ALL of the EU laws passed by the rest of the continental delegation in Brussels, nor would they be as pressured to bail out the failures of other nations. In other words: leaving means putting more power back in their hands.

Why wouldn't they want that? What benefits does the EU grant them that outweigh that restoration of power and control in their lives? Some will vote to stay in the EU because they believe those benefits do outweigh the loss of power, but others won't. It will be interesting to see how it turns out.

Well, poll after poll has pointed towards immigration being the number one factor that people are basing their decision on.

It has also very much been the key message that the leave campaigners have been relying on.

The whole about "retaking control" could be very contested any way. The UK' main trading partner is the EU and will almost certainly remain the case after the referendum.

If this is the case, then in order to access the EU market, the UK will still have to follow just about every EU regulation; and contribute to the EU budget, in order to carry on trading with the EU. Except the UK will have absolutely no input into setting EU regulations; so really, the UK will have less control than it does now.

This is already the case in Switzerland and Norway, they have to follow EU regulations and pay into the EU budget (as why should they benefit from the standard the EU has set without contributing to it?). Where they don't follow the laws, they don't get to access the European market.

Case in point, Swiss wine, the Swiss made a decision to subsidise their wine industry in a way that breached EU regulations. As a result of this, you actually cannot buy Swiss wine within the EU. This will basically be the case for British exports unless the follow what the EU tells them, whether the UK is in the EU or not.

Channel Swimmer wrote:

DiscoGary wrote:

OK Brits. What's up?

Voting out. The globalists are ruining our lives. An EU is the same thing that Hitler wanted. I don't want that. Soros is a Nazi. He and his globalist pals need to be taken down.

The Bilderbergers just finished up their meeting in Dresden. So many are on the Saudi Arabian payroll like America's General Patraeus.

Journalist Rob Dew chased after him in Dresden to question him and others.

you mad, bro?

The benefits of the EU are literally all trade related. At the moment, our economy is supported by European trade and that is in part due to the EU regulations that make trade duty free between EU nations (the Single Market). The free movement of people could also be argued to allow skilled professionals to be easily brought into the country, such as the NHS does with doctors and nurses to help support our health service.

Nobody can say for certain the effect that leaving the EU will have on our economy, on jobs, on number of immigration (leaving the EU doesn't close our borders, it is likely that European immigration will remain high especially with Cameron in charge who is pro-EU).

All the stats and figures that say leaving the EU will do x amount of bad or x amount of good are simply predictions and estimations. Staying in the EU is a much easier future to predict, as we know what being in the EU entails and can see how it has affected our economy.

Voting leave is something that should only be done by a gambling man. People living in the UK right now should know that the economic situation for the everyday person right now is OK. We are doing fine. I'm sorry for anyone who is struggling financially right now but that has little to do with the amount of immigration. That's a myth that has been debunked many times. Xenophobia and poor income seem to go hand in hand. Some unskilled citizens feel that if all the immigrants were 'sent back' then they would receive some kind of windfall and a fall into a £30k job.

The Single Market helps a lot of SMEs and encourages big businesses to trade, create jobs and pay taxes here. Voting to leave the EU is a gamble that very well could end up bettering the UK down the line. It could also do the opposite. Staying will leave things much the same.

I am not sure which way I will vote yet. But it sure as hell won't be a vote based on immigration. That is such a mixed issue. Immigration may well 'take jobs from British people' (lazy, unskilled people I might add), but skilled immigrants are vital to our health service, educational services, financial services, and engineering/technology sector. Some of the media seem to be making a parallel between leaving the EU and stopping refugees from 'pouring in' from Syria as a scaremongering tactic. I'm not sure how that one works but it's not true. We are in the EU right now and have hardly taken any refugees, they are all sitting in Calais.

Some Nationalists who are anti-EU want to see Britain 'stand on it's own two feet' be 'in charge of it's own borders' value 'British workers over immigrants' etc etc. Lot's of this is patriotic nonsense. We don't have an Empire anymore and need to make friends with our neighbours to survive.

I'd vote out if I think it will genuinely help our economy. The amount of money we pay the EU does startle me.

After the Brexit, Brussels won't be able to tell then not to buy Swiss Wine.

So you basically pay the EU to regulate trade, and that trade is not "free market" trading because they want to make sure different countries play by the same set of rules so no gets an unfair advantage. Is this perceived as fair, or corrupt and bureaucratic?

The EU makes it easier to migrate between countries as well. How easy is it? In the US I can move between states without telling anyone. Can that happen in the EU?

DiscoGary wrote:

So you basically pay the EU to regulate trade, and that trade is not "free market" trading because they want to make sure different countries play by the same set of rules so no gets an unfair advantage. Is this perceived as fair, or corrupt and bureaucratic?

In a way yes, and it does lead to accusations that the EU is bureaucratic.

DiscoGary wrote:

The EU makes it easier to migrate between countries as well. How easy is it? In the US I can move between states without telling anyone. Can that happen in the EU?

There is free movement, so no restrictions on whether you can move or not. With regards to who you tell, it gets a bit more complicated; if you moved to the UK you would still have to register for a Social Security number; likewise, lots of countries (Germany for example) will also make you register with your local authority when you move to a new city.

My question (and it may be a stupid one) is what effect, if any will a country as signifcant as Great Britain leaving the EU have on the EU itself? Will it be negligible, or will it encourage other countries to exit, will it result in a smaller and re-structured entity w/a more streamlined bureacracy etc.?

The Brits don't have the guts to get out. Just like the Scots didn't get out of Britain/UK/whatever you call it. Western European are sissies. We'll have to save them from themselves once again in not too long.

Nobody even understands the difference between Britain, Great Britain, The United Kingdom, England and whatever else they call themselves.

I heard Margaret Thatcher speak once and someone asked about British membership in the EU, she responded:

~"I don't know why any country would ever trade sovereignty and freedom for anything in the world."

I think we could put her in the "Yes" to Brexit column.

history repeats itself wrote:

Just like the Scots didn't get out of Britain/UK/whatever you call it.

Scotland wanted to leave the UK (the country). Britain is a geograpical term for the island that mostly contains Scotland, England, and Wales.