Steve Magness - rebuttal needed

He is not against training at vo2 max in workouts, he is against making the goal of training to improve vo2 max. Training to improve vo2 max is not the same as training to improve race performance

Steve Magness Said:

Tempos? Vo2max? ain't nobody got time for that!

I really would love to see Magness do more coaching and less blogging. How many athletes will he have in Rio? Exactly.

Coach Cookie wrote:

I really would love to see Magness do more coaching and less blogging. How many athletes will he have in Rio? Exactly.

Maybe if he takes them to HIS doctor.

Coach Cookie wrote:

I really would love to see Magness do more coaching and less blogging. How many athletes will he have in Rio? Exactly.

Well, he already has one who is qualified and going, so???

Bobby Sands wrote:

To paraphrase, Steve Magness seems against training vo2max or tempo as he sees them as just measurable intensities but not optimal.

Can anyone further explain or even counter this claim physiologically? I keep thinking of high school coaches who have had so much success with Daniels or Vigil inspired training plans, but would Magness say they vastly underachieved?

NO. Daniels is saying it is best to train at specific paces like what he calls "VO2 max" pace and "threshold" pace. Magness is saying that training at those paces is fine, but no better than training at 3k pace, HM pace, 10K pace, etc as long as you get a good range of intensity levels in.

the notion that there might be some magical training pace was an artifact from the lactate threshold debate. all fixed blood lactate parameters are highly intercorrelated

but at the same fixed values are also ridiculous since there is no true steady state.

Galen Rupp - Alberto Salazar

Meb Keflezighi - Bob Larsen

Jared Ward - Ed Eyestone

Alicia Cragg - Jerry Schumacher

Desi Davila - Kevin & Keith Hanson

Shalane Flanagan - Jerry Schumacher

I don't see Magness on that list. Thanks.

if you weren't so American centric you'd realize that some countries have already selected individuals to their team too.

kjVC wrote:

You do realize it doesn't count to have an athlete go from a nation that doesn't have a trials system, right? My friend coached his wife to the Olympics for Mexico in the marathon. Is he as great as Salazar? Not.

Of course it counts. Selection in those countries is not picked from a hat. It's based on past performances by those athletes. Who was the coach during said performances? Exactly.

kjVC wrote:

Galen Rupp - Alberto Salazar

Meb Keflezighi - Bob Larsen

Jared Ward - Ed Eyestone

Alicia Cragg - Jerry Schumacher

Desi Davila - Kevin & Keith Hanson

Shalane Flanagan - Jerry Schumacher

I don't see Magness on that list. Thanks.

I don't see Jack Daniels either.

Exactly.

it's Amy Cragg, not Alicia

Did anyone find the foreigner that Magness coaches that "made" the Olympics?

I thought a lot of times at what makes an outstanding coach.

Bringing an athlete from running 5k in 25:00 to 15:00 is an option.

Second option is to bring a 15:00/5k athlete to Olympics level.

Where does Magness fit?

But he writes a nice blog and his hypothesis are provocative.

kjVC wrote:

Did anyone find the foreigner that Magness coaches that "made" the Olympics?

He coaches Mark English who has run 1:45 for 800m and is pre-selected for the Olympics.

His american with an outside shot would be Natosha Rogers who, as the brojo's pointed out, should be a sleeper in the 10k after being revived from the dead.

Don't let facts get in the way though.

HardLoper wrote:

Bobby Sands wrote:

To paraphrase, Steve Magness seems against training vo2max or tempo as he sees them as just measurable intensities but not optimal.

Can anyone further explain or even counter this claim physiologically? I keep thinking of high school coaches who have had so much success with Daniels or Vigil inspired training plans, but would Magness say they vastly underachieved?

NO. Daniels is saying it is best to train at specific paces like what he calls "VO2 max" pace and "threshold" pace. Magness is saying that training at those paces is fine, but no better than training at 3k pace, HM pace, 10K pace, etc as long as you get a good range of intensity levels in.

Uh Daniel's says it's important to train at all those paces too dawg.....

Hold on. Mark English ran 1:44.84 in 2013 before Magness was born.

How is that a success story?

Bobby Sands wrote:

To paraphrase, Steve Magness seems against training vo2max or tempo as he sees them as just measurable intensities but not optimal.

Can anyone further explain or even counter this claim physiologically? I keep thinking of high school coaches who have had so much success with Daniels or Vigil inspired training plans, but would Magness say they vastly underachieved?

where did you read/heard this? doesn't sounds right.