Remember when "atheist" had a negative connotation?

Not Jeff But wrote:

Stagger Lee wrote:

Care to explain?

1) Religion does not have compulsory coercion

2) The state is real and necessary "in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...". Religion? Not so much.

3) Nobody thinks that the state loves them

4) The fact that one cannot easily avoid paying taxes is relevant to nothing at all

5) Well, you get the gist. It was a senseless and gratuitous paragraph.

1. Sure it does. Either do what God says, or suffer eternal damnation. That is coercive, and worship is compulsory.

2. This is a naturalistic fallacy (see the is-ought problem)

3. The point is that the state operates by force.

4. Paying taxes is relevant. Let's say I was against the war in Iraq. Does my moral objection in any way effect my burden as a citizen to pay for said war? No, it doesn't. Since force can be used against me to pay for that which I deem morally reprehensible, then it is coercive and therefore immoral.

Much like religion, the state compels us to adhere to their dictates despite personal objections. Or else. In a state of coercion, free will cannot exist. The two institutions really aren't that much different.

Bible and slavery wrote:

Atheists tend to be extremely left wing, anti-capitalist, and embrace Marxism. I am in agreement with Stagger's statement.

Ayn Rand has a lot fans.

Not Jeff But wrote:

Stagger Lee wrote:

Care to explain?

1) Religion does not have compulsory coercion

2) The state is real and necessary "in order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity...". Religion? Not so much.

3) Nobody thinks that the state loves them

4) The fact that one cannot easily avoid paying taxes is relevant to nothing at all

5) Well, you get the gist. It was a senseless and gratuitous paragraph.

5. *shrug*

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Bible and slavery wrote:

Atheists tend to be extremely left wing, anti-capitalist, and embrace Marxism. I am in agreement with Stagger's statement.

Ayn Rand has a lot fans.

As does Karl Marx, why is Bernie doing so well in the polls?

More gratuitous senselessness.

1) Nobody compels you to practice any religion (at least in the US)

2) Nope. No fallacy. Try living without a state (government). Somalia anyone?

3) Yes, the state uses force. So?

4) Paying taxes may be relevant to your life. The fact that one must pay taxes is not relevant to the conversation.

Not Jeff But wrote:

4) Paying taxes may be relevant to your life. The fact that one must pay taxes is not relevant to the conversation.

These things do tie in and are relevant, in my opinion. However, to avoid yet another rabbit trail I will just agree to disagree.

Bible and slavery wrote:

Jeff Wigand wrote:

Ayn Rand has a lot fans.

As does Karl Marx, why is Bernie doing so well in the polls?

Because a lot of people like what he's saying. And most of those people supporting him believe in a god.

The Pope says that I am now eligible for heaven as long as I follow my conscience. I think I qualify since I don't believe in god because he is a child molesting, mass murdering POS. Same goes for his illegitimate son. So I am definitely following my conscience. I guess I'm good. Now I just have to decide if I want to accept his invitation. I guess it would depend on if he has changed his child molesting, mass murdering POS ways or not.http://www.oregonlive.com/today/index.ssf/2015/12/pope_francis_offers_hope_to_fa.html

Bible and slavery wrote:

Atheists tend to be extremely left wing, anti-capitalist, and embrace Marxism. I am in agreement with Stagger's statement.

Bible and slavery wrote:

Atheists tend to be extremely left wing, anti-capitalist, and embrace Marxism. I am in agreement with Stagger's statement.

Really? I've never met any fellow Atheist that fits that description. Are you sure you're not embellishing a little?

Religion is not coerced or forced? Do you think jeff asked his son if he would like to go to Church before taking him?

Religion is forced first and foremost.

The invisible Atheist wrote:

Bible and slavery wrote:

Atheists tend to be extremely left wing, anti-capitalist, and embrace Marxism...

Really? I've never met any fellow Atheist that fits that description. Are you sure you're not embellishing a little?

This ^

Would 'Bible and slavery' care to provide any evidence to support his/her claim regarding the tendencies of atheists?

I stopped believing in God the same day I found out Santa Claus wasn't real. I have respect for people who do believe in God, as it is very difficult to deny something your parents and community have told you is true. The main reason people believe in God is that as a child they were ingrained with the message "believe or burn in Hell for eternity." As they grow and give themselves more reassurance of the existence of God, the idea that the Bible isn't true is instantly rejected mostly because of their years of self justification, and of course, the deep rooted warning of "believe or burn in Hell."

I am an atheist, but don't feel the need to try to convince religious people they're wrong. It is nearly impossible, even with logic and undeniable evidence, to shake religious people of their beliefs. I think that there is even a sense of ignorant bliss by believing in God; it gives their lives more meaning, helps them through hard times. These people would likely enjoy life less without the reassurance of a loving skydaddy. I don't feel the need to bring them down to Earth.

For the spirit of the thread, this is why I have total confidence that there is no Christian God:

- Ignoring the heaps of evidence that there is no God, there is zero evidence that there is only one God, and that he is the one described in the Bible. What disproves Odin? Zeus? The millions of Hindu Gods? The Flying Spaghetti Monster? (look Him up)

- The countless contradictions of religion. God is all powerful, is of good will, yet still gives children cancer. God wants all to believe in him, yet never shows a grain of proof.

- If a man rapes a child; one of two things happens: God has included this in part of his ultimate plan and sent the man, or God stands and watches saying "I'll punish him when he's done."

- God gives babies foreskins and asks parents to cut them up, which results in many deaths and complications in babies who have no way of agreeing with this.

"What is the difference between a cult and a religion? A cult is when there is a person at the top who knows it is a sham. A religion is when this person dies."

Standing ovation, Sir.

It's crazy, but you just shattered the whole thing in a few sentences. Perhaps that is why this fairly active thread suddenly went to the boneyard. Are you an editor? Damn, that was concise.

Bible and slavery wrote:

I have not bashed gays and don't put words in my mouth. You resorted to generalizations .

No ... I responded to a post that said abortion is what atheism promotes.

You've suggested the bible is ultimate be-all-end-all code of morality and truth. That same book calls for gay people to be stoned to death (even more explicitly than its blatant advocation of slavery). You can't make the above claim and then say you shouldn't be lumped in with people who abuse gay people. What's more abusive than stoning someone to death?

Bible and slavery wrote:

Atheists tend to be extremely left wing, anti-capitalist, and embrace Marxism. I am in agreement with Stagger's statement.

Wait a sec .. didn't you just jump on me for making generalizations? And then you make a completely absurd and unsupportable statement like this?

The invisible Atheist wrote:

Bible and slavery wrote:

Atheists tend to be extremely left wing, anti-capitalist, and embrace Marxism. I am in agreement with Stagger's statement.

Really? I've never met any fellow Atheist that fits that description. Are you sure you're not embellishing a little?

Your atheist friends support GOP candidates and their platform?

wait,what? wrote:

The invisible Atheist wrote:

Really? I've never met any fellow Atheist that fits that description. Are you sure you're not embellishing a little?

Your atheist friends support GOP candidates and their platform?

What does that have to do with Atheism?

wait,what? wrote:

The invisible Atheist wrote:

Really? I've never met any fellow Atheist that fits that description. Are you sure you're not embellishing a little?

Your atheist friends support GOP candidates and their platform?

Wow. Talk about a false dichotomy!

I will acknowledge that B&S used the word "tend" and was not making a blanket statement. But among the atheists I know (hundreds), I literally could count on my fingers--maybe my thumbs--the number who even approximately fit the "extremely left wing, anti-capitalist, and embrace Marxism" description that B&S provided.

I think in large part that would be because of the authoritarian nature of "extremely left wing" ideology. People who are against the strictures imposed by religion are likely to resist those imposed by statist governments.

In fact, the argument has been made (rather successfully IMHO) that one reason Marxism flourished in Russia was precisely because of a population that was used to being told what to do. Those doing the "telling" simply switched from priests to commissars.

Understand: atheism is a "not." It's just nonbelief, by definition. Atheists don't believe in any "god(s)" but vary in every other respect I can think of. For instance, the president of American Atheists (David Silverman) is a gun nut. There are atheists who are against abortion. There are atheists against vaccination. There are atheists who dispute climate change and evolution(!). And there are *plenty* of atheists (including some Rand-influenced types) who embrace capitalism and despise statist political systems--whether those be communism, socialism, or corporate-cronyism.

And I, a voter for nearly a half-century, have never voted for a Democrat for anything...though I certainly will not vote for any of the current crop of GOP presidential candidates who claim that their lives and decisions are primarily governed by belief in a "deitiy."

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To answer the thread's actual (trolling) question: sure, I remember when "atheist" had a negative connotation. I think it still does--but progressively less so.