The nation's largest cop union asks NFL to allow some people to carry guns in NFL stadiums during game time.

It doesn't matter if folks bring guns or not. If criminals THINK people have guns, the stadium will be a safer place.

This will blow up in their face (pun intended) if the NFL responds by declaring their stadiums "Gun Free Zones". They will be the most dangerous places in the country on any given Sunday, concussions notwithstanding.

Can you imagine! We all know drunk, angry NFL fans would never do anything stupid.

Well.

Maybe.

But.

I can see allowing EX-Marines and ex-grunts of DoD conventional services to carry loaded guns at NFL games. But no civilians.

thejeff wrote:

It doesn't matter if folks bring guns or not. If criminals THINK people have guns, the stadium will be a safer place.

This will blow up in their face (pun intended) if the NFL responds by declaring their stadiums "Gun Free Zones". They will be the most dangerous places in the country on any given Sunday, concussions notwithstanding.

If many criminals have guns and know that other criminals have guns, then why is there so much gun violence? Wouldn't criminals knowing that the other criminals were armed then prevent the violence from happening in the first place? It seems to me that that knowledge just invites more gun violence. I have lived and worked in a place that has been dubbed "murdertown usa" for the past 23 years and have not experienced anything like that at my job (very small business dealing with the criminal element in the city). I personally have had no incidents here and I've always thought that part of the reason is that everyone knows that I'm not a pVssy and that everyone knows that I'm not armed. I'm not sure if you've ever lived in a place with violence but one of the first rules is that if you know that someone is packing, then you'd better bring a bigger gun.

J K L M N O wrote:

Well.

Maybe.

But.

I can see allowing EX-Marines and ex-grunts of DoD conventional services to carry loaded guns at NFL games. But no civilians.

yeah Ex-Marines have never done anything bad.

I could be wrong, but virtually every mass shooting in recent memory has happened in a Gun Free Zone.

"If many criminals have guns and know that other criminals have guns, then why is there so much gun violence? Wouldn't criminals knowing that the other criminals were armed then prevent the violence from happening in the first place? It seems to me that that knowledge just invites more gun violence. I have lived and worked in a place that has been dubbed "murdertown usa" for the past 23 years and have not experienced anything like that at my job (very small business dealing with the criminal element in the city). I personally have had no incidents here and I've always thought that part of the reason is that everyone knows that I'm not a pVssy and that everyone knows that I'm not armed. I'm not sure if you've ever lived in a place with violence but one of the first rules is that if you know that someone is packing, then you'd better bring a bigger gun."

Gun size typically doesn't matter in an urban gunfight nearly as much as getting the jump on your opponent and your aim. The myth is that gun violence is "everywhere", the fact is it largely predominates in a small handful of cities which skews the statistics for the entire nation (Washington DC, Chicago, Detroit, St Louis and one or two others). These are largely gang and drug related killings and as long as you aren't involved in these activities or caught in the wrong place at the wrong time, you are relatively safe.

Which takes me back to my point (because I live in a "violent" city), if people know that you are packing, does it really decrease the likelihood of violence or does it increase it? In my experience, it increases it. Don't get all crazy and misread me. I am not in favor of gun laws. While I do not own a gun, I am not for banning handguns or anything like that because of violence. The war on drugs has done nothing to stop neither the flow of drugs into this country nor the country's appetite for them. I would imagine that a war or weapons would produce the same result. Criminal often obtain their weapons illegally anyway so that's just ridiculous. Anyway, the point I was trying to make is that if all gangbangers know that all other gangbangers are carrying weapons, then why are they still shooting at each other? Wouldn't the fear of knowing that someone could possibly shoot back magically deter them from shooting in the first place?

No, because the vast majority of them are either young and think they are invincible, high and are oblivious, or have nothing else to live for and just figure they'll live life the only way they know how until they get killed.

thejeff wrote:

.

I could be wrong, but virtually every mass shooting in recent memory has happened in a Gun Free Zone.[/quote]

Places are designated as "gun free zones" not to keep out mass shooters, but to prevent other gun violence from breaking out when people are dealing with contentious issues. Teachers and coaches should not have to worry about whether little Jimmy's dad is packing heat when he comes to school to talk about Jimmy's suspension. People taking their kids to a movie theater should not have to worry whether someone's gun accidentally discharges when it accidentally is dropped on the floor when everyone stands up after the movie is over. And at sporting events, people should not worry that a scuffle between fans of opposing teams will escalate into a shoot out in the middle of a crowded stadium.

Mass shooters are almost always suicidal. They do not care whether they encounter someone with a firearm. They usually pick their targets out of some revenge motive or some fantasy that they will be famous and make a lasting political statement.

Tactically speaking, if you are in an area where there are a lot of people, the worse thing you can do is try to have a shoot out with a mass shooter. Odds are you will get shot first and will probably hitting innocent civilians instead of the shooter. It takes a tremendous amount of tactical training to be able to respond to a mass shooter. And the most dangerous problem is for law enforcement to be able to differentiate between the criminal and the citizen trying to engage the criminal with a firearm. Law enforcement may waste resources trying to find someone using a firearm who is not actually a threat. Law enforcement in plain clothes may get shot by a civilian or end up shooting a civilian in the heat of the moment.

are shootings at NFL games some big problem i'm unaware of?

cio2o2 wrote:

are shootings at NFL games some big problem i'm unaware of?

Oh yeah! You have no idea about the coverups and outright lies told by the NFL and its co-enablers. The money involved is staggering and effectively makes it impossible to even mention "shooting" and "NFL" in the same sentence. Look it up. But don't expect the lamestream media to have any of this publicly available.

thejeff wrote:

I could be wrong, but virtually every mass shooting in recent memory has happened in a Gun Free Zone.

The majority of mass shootings (FBI definition of 4 or more fatalities) occur in private residences.

thejeff wrote:

It doesn't matter if folks bring guns or not. If criminals THINK people have guns, the stadium will be a safer place.

This will blow up in their face (pun intended) if the NFL responds by declaring their stadiums "Gun Free Zones". They will be the most dangerous places in the country on any given Sunday, concussions notwithstanding.

The stadiums are gun free zones now so where is all the violence? You hear about the occasional fight or stabbing or shooting in the parking lot but considering all the emotional fans mixed with alcohol it seem stadiums are pretty safe places as is.

But that's none of my business.

J K L M N O wrote:

Well.

Maybe.

But.

I can see allowing EX-Marines and ex-grunts of DoD conventional services to carry loaded guns at NFL games. But no civilians.

These holy people don't drink and do stupid stuff? That's going to end well for everybody.

===============

This just posted on buzzfeed:

Gun owners are attempting to establish a social order where they are higher/more valued than other non-gun owners.

Fascinating.

J K L M N O wrote:

I can see allowing EX-Marines and ex-grunts of DoD conventional services to carry loaded guns at NFL games. But no civilians.

Yes. Let's make PTSD a requirement for carrying a concealed weapon?

"Gun owners are attempting to establish a social order where they are higher/more valued than other non-gun owners."

Libs did this long ago.

More armed good guys is what's needed. Look at the most recent incident in CO. Only 5 of the 9 injured and 1 of the 3 killed were armed and trained. Arming shoddy trained or untrained citizens is definitely the answer.

thejeff wrote:

I could be wrong, but virtually every mass shooting in recent memory has happened in a Gun Free Zone.

How would you know they were gun free zones?