vo2 max training question? Please help?

you are asking the wrong question, oversimplifying

all motor units contribute to uptake, start there

ineedhelp wrote:

What is the optimal pace for vo2 max workouts , some sources say 3-5k pace, Vvo2 max pace, others 6 minute-10 minute pace, other sources say mile race pace and they are researches about HIIT that say that even all out sprinting pace is good enough. I am really confused as all of them are a wide ranges of paces so which is the optimal pace.

Thank you.

You train to run faster, not to improve Vo2max (that´s an effect of training).

Any knowledgeable coach knows that a training program consists of a sequence of workouts that builds on previous workouts to reach peak shape.

What workouts you do depends on the athlete, his background, what event he is training for and where he is in the training cycle.

He doesn´t just pull a "Vo2max workout" out of the hat.

Most research indicates that the 3 dominant physiological systems that predict performance are VO2max, Running Economy and Lactate Threshold (see Joyner, M.J. J. Appl. Physiol. 1991, 70, 6839 for a good overview).

In general, maximal adaptation for each of these systems is obtained by stressing that system specifically on a weekly to bi-weekly basis.

1. The stress causes damage to the physiological drivers of that system

2. the damage caused inflammation (swelling/soreness in muscles) which is basically your immune system clearing out the damaged cells/debris

3. inflammation resolves with regrowth/adaptation of the system so that it is better able to handle near-maximal work loads

Some rules of thumb regarding proper training paces include:

1. Lactate threshold(LT): a pace where it becomes difficult to chat/talk during a run as your lactate threshold is approximated by ~ ventilation threshold (i.e.Tempo Runs, Half-Marathon to Marathon pace)

2. VO2max: more difficult to define phenomologically but generally approximated by a functional definition ~ 3k race pace (i.e. mile repeats)

3. Running Economy (RE): basically sprint-type workouts, plyometrics and forefoot running that maximize muscle strength, neural recruitment, lactate tolerance etc.

If youre interested in more info on the science you can find an infographic that compiles the scientific literature on this topic here:

http://www.practicallyscience.com/how-fast-do-i-gainlose-fitness/

nope... wrote:

ineedhelp wrote:

What is the optimal pace for vo2 max workouts , some sources say 3-5k pace, Vvo2 max pace, others 6 minute-10 minute pace, other sources say mile race pace and they are researches about HIIT that say that even all out sprinting pace is good enough. I am really confused as all of them are a wide ranges of paces so which is the optimal pace.

Thank you.

You train to run faster, not to improve Vo2max (that´s an effect of training).

Any knowledgeable coach knows that a training program consists of a sequence of workouts that builds on previous workouts to reach peak shape.

What workouts you do depends on the athlete, his background, what event he is training for and where he is in the training cycle.

He doesn´t just pull a "Vo2max workout" out of the hat.

please just answer my question if i want to improve my vo2 max what is the optimal pace, i am not a high school or college runner

ineedhelp wrote:

What is the optimal pace for vo2 max workouts , some sources say 3-5k pace, Vvo2 max pace, others 6 minute-10 minute pace, other sources say mile race pace and they are researches about HIIT that say that even all out sprinting pace is good enough. I am really confused as all of them are a wide ranges of paces so which is the optimal pace.

Thank you.

To optimally train your vo2 Max, you need to train at all of the paces you mentioned.

A helper wrote:

ineedhelp wrote:

What is the optimal pace for vo2 max workouts , some sources say 3-5k pace, Vvo2 max pace, others 6 minute-10 minute pace, other sources say mile race pace and they are researches about HIIT that say that even all out sprinting pace is good enough. I am really confused as all of them are a wide ranges of paces so which is the optimal pace.

Thank you.

To optimally train your vo2 Max, you need to train at all of the paces you mentioned.

are you crazy, a helper?

hes crazy wrote:

A helper wrote:

To optimally train your vo2 Max, you need to train at all of the paces you mentioned.

are you crazy, a helper?

He's not crazy, he is correct. If you want an answer that fits into your view of training, just go to the McMillan Running Calculator, or buy Jack Daniels' book, and find your current fitness level and then see some sample workouts at what you call "VO2 max pace". But really, there is nothing magical about VO2 max pace- it's just another good pace for training (see Steve Magness on this topic). So you need to have an overall plan that includes multiple paces.

The best way to improve it is to take up Cross Country skiing.

you can google it wrote:

hes crazy wrote:

are you crazy, a helper?

He's not crazy, he is correct. If you want an answer that fits into your view of training, just go to the McMillan Running Calculator, or buy Jack Daniels' book, and find your current fitness level and then see some sample workouts at what you call "VO2 max pace". But really, there is nothing magical about VO2 max pace- it's just another good pace for training (see Steve Magness on this topic). So you need to have an overall plan that includes multiple paces.

look i am a recreational runner and i just want to improve my vo2 max, thats it as simple as that i am not as competitive as you guys so please help me out

Did I not answer your question in my post above?

Do 4xmile at 3k-5k pace with 3 minutes rest.

ineedhelp wrote:

What is the optimal pace for vo2 max workouts , some sources say 3-5k pace, Vvo2 max pace, others 6 minute-10 minute pace, other sources say mile race pace and they are researches about HIIT that say that even all out sprinting pace is good enough. I am really confused as all of them are a wide ranges of paces so which is the optimal pace.

Thank you.

I recall that Jack Daniels put vVo2 pace as the pace at which you can go for 12 minutes. For the typical letsrunner, then, about 5k pace.

For most people you hit Max VO2 after about 2 minutes, so the key is to increase the time you spend at that effort. I would say the optimal time would be up to 3 minutes. Less time or more time would not work the energy system.

VO2max in even moderately trained athletes doesn't really respond to training.

That said, the most effective workouts are uphill repeats. The objective is to generate a large delta-HR, and uphill running does that better than running on the flats. 60-90 seconds should be plenty.

800 dude wrote:

VO2max in even moderately trained athletes doesn't really respond to training.

That said, the most effective workouts are uphill repeats. The objective is to generate a large delta-HR, and uphill running does that better than running on the flats. 60-90 seconds should be plenty.

somewhat agree

ineedhelp wrote:

you can google it wrote:

He's not crazy, he is correct. If you want an answer that fits into your view of training, just go to the McMillan Running Calculator, or buy Jack Daniels' book, and find your current fitness level and then see some sample workouts at what you call "VO2 max pace". But really, there is nothing magical about VO2 max pace- it's just another good pace for training (see Steve Magness on this topic). So you need to have an overall plan that includes multiple paces.

look i am a recreational runner and i just want to improve my vo2 max, thats it as simple as that i am not as competitive as you guys so please help me out

run in the 3k-5k range of paces. if doing 400/800s stay closer to 3k. if doing 1200/1600 stay closer to 5k.

is the dumbed down enough? ...

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

For most people you hit Max VO2 after about 2 minutes, so the key is to increase the time you spend at that effort. I would say the optimal time would be up to 3 minutes. Less time or more time would not work the energy system.

You can use shorter reps if less rest is used. You are also forgetting about the accumulative effect of training. If doing shorter reps your first rep won't have much time if any at Vo2max but subsequent reps will have more and more time spent at Vo2max. That 2:00 time to reach Vo2max gets thrown around a lot but that's from a stone cold start.

Remember Billat's research? Here's a good summary and reason why 30/30 allows you to spend a lot of time at Vo2max:

Key points:

"Billat deduced that runners seeking to maximize workout time spent at VO2 max should run at vVO2 max and no faster because they would fatigue more quickly at faster speeds"

"Billat knew that a runner’s rate of oxygen consumption remains at or near 100 percent VO2 max for as long as 15-20 seconds after he or she stops running at vVO2 max, or slows down from this pace."

"In testing this format, Billat found that some runners were able to amass more than 18 total minutes at VO2 max, almost 1/3 of it occurring during their jogging recoveries."

Of course we're only talking about one physiological variable here and one that doesn't even have a direct relation to running performance.

Alan

The question is unclear.

The optimal pace to improve your VO2max depends on many individual factors, like the total volume of the individual VO2max workout, the number of repetitions (if applicable), the length of the rest intervals in between (if any), the frequency of VO2max workouts (e.g. how many times per week), what kind of training you do besides VO2max training, how often you train, how much you recover from training, how long you want to train, how your training is periodized, if at all, your training history, and the goal of your training, just to name a few factors.

If you only want to improve your VO2max, then you should only train by doing VO2max tests, i.e. an incrementally increasing paced treadmill test, probably once a week, until you max out.

If you want a simple answer, look up any race performance in Jack Daniels performance tables, and target his I-Pace.

Let's not overcomplicate things-but I will anyway. There are two components.

All the running you do that contributes to increasing your ability to run more comfortably at faster and faster aerobic paces will increase your Lactate Threshold, and, indirectly, your 'VO2Max', which, as Magness points out, has become an unnecessarily reified concept. This will include 'bread and butter' runs, the long run, and faster aerobic runs below the lactate threshold (subthreshold, marathon pace, steady state-whatever you want to call them). I believe you can do so-called cruise intervals (10k pace) year-around. Then you can progress some of the continuous running to true tempo runs and tempo intervals (look up McMillan or Daniels). You will be benefitting from the crucial structural changes like increased muscle capillaries, more mitochondria, greater blood volume, and bigger stroke volume of the heart.

Then you can progress the long intervals to 5k, and then 3k, pace, which is supposed to be training VO2Max pace directly. More than likely, this produces more direct and immediate benefit by increasing certain helpful enzymes and other chemicals that help buffer lactate, and make energy sources more efficient. It also 'dials in' that pace biomechanically.

Don't forget recovery jogs to recover from harder sessions, and keep the base ticking over.

It is the combination to these two types of training, properly sequenced, that will help you the most.