How to run a 9:30 3200m?

Ohguy wrote:

I'm a senior and my xc season was shorted by injury, but I ended up running around 16:20. Last year in track I hit a 2 flat 800 and a 10 flat 3200m. I'm aiming to run a 9:30 this year. During cross country we ran really low mileage, like 35 miles per week, and in track it's usually even less. We do a lot of repeat work and speed work normally. This year I've been running over winter and built up to about 35 miles per week, but every run is done at 6:30 to 7:30 pace for right now during my base. Do I need more miles to reach my goal or what kind of things should I be doing to help run a 9:30? Any help is appreciated!

Yes, you most likely do need more base biles than 35 per week. I would recommend gradually working your way up to 50-60 miles per week. I have my kids do one short tempo, one long tempo, and one long run per week in the offseason. My top guy is hoping to break 10:00 this year and he runs right around 50 miles weekly. His short tempo is currently at 4 miles and he hits 5:40-5:45 pace. His longer tempo is currently 6 miles and the pace is 5:45-5:50. Long runs are 10 miles and I have him start slow and gradually pick it up. This usually means 7:15-7:20 for the first couple and he usually ends around 6:20-6:30. He will max out at 58 miles with tempos of 5/7 and a long run of 12.

The remaining 30 miles per week are 4-6 milers at what we call "conversation pace". This usually equates to 6:50-7:10. 7 days per week, singles, and we include warm-up and cool-down miles in the total. He only runs cool-down miles on tempo days. He runs a 1-mile warm-up everyday except for our long run day.

Ohguy wrote:

I'm a senior and my xc season was shorted by injury, but I ended up running around 16:20. Last year in track I hit a 2 flat 800 and a 10 flat 3200m. I'm aiming to run a 9:30 this year. During cross country we ran really low mileage, like 35 miles per week, and in track it's usually even less. We do a lot of repeat work and speed work normally. This year I've been running over winter and built up to about 35 miles per week, but every run is done at 6:30 to 7:30 pace for right now during my base. Do I need more miles to reach my goal or what kind of things should I be doing to help run a 9:30? Any help is appreciated!

I would be remiss if I did not mention that it sounds like you should be focusing on the 1600m this upcoming season. With decent longer times of 10/16:20 and 2:00 800m speed, you should be able to develop into a solid "miler".

Well I haven't run any cool down or warmup miles with my base mileage, I basically just stretch and go. I'm hoping to add jnside faster tempo runs and fartleks soon. I plan on going up to 45 miles per week and that should be good before I start hard track work. I'm also going to do strides. I feel like I'm missing something though. Also I hate the mile and we already have a good miler

I also take one day off per week

2:00 800 is way better than a 10::00 3200m. I would say its even better than a 9:30.

Run more. Don't worry how much. Just run more. Get tired then run less. Feel good then run more.

Alan

What else can I do to reach this goal? Are there any other tips? Should I work up to 45 mpw then start speed?

Bump

If someone comes on here and tells u to run 8x72sec 400s ima find them and beat em up lol. Hate that joke. Srs tho, really depends on where ur coming from. Chances r ur in HS need some aerobic work. Get out there an run some miles then run some more then make em faster. Don't worry about doin 200 repeats dude just run long. I aint even gonna give you a number and set a limit in your mind. You can do upwards of 70 miles no joke. DOn't just start doin that one week. You def need to work your way up there. I can't give you a time guide but do it in 10 weeks.

runningart2004 wrote:

2:00 800 is way better than a 10::00 3200m. I would say its even better than a 9:30.

Run more. Don't worry how much. Just run more. Get tired then run less. Feel good then run more.

Alan

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAH

Take 1 easy day off a week.

Recommendations:

Quality 10 mile run every Sunday to build aerobic capacity. No slower than 6:15 pace. Keep up your other work and you should eventually be able to run sub 60 mins without taxing yourself too much. Towards the end of the season, really push the last 3 miles on at least one of these runs.

12x400 in with 60 sec rest with target pace of 70-73 secs per quarter should help build efficiency

8x 400 at race pace with 30-45 secs recovery will force you to rely on aerobic system instead of cheating workout with surges at beginning/ end of repeats

5 x 800 with 2 minutes rest will help build mental toughness.

Observations:

The jump from 10:00 to 9:30 is big in both difficulty and competitive effect. 10 flat often won't qualify for state meet but 9:30 will have an outside shot of snagging a state medal. (States and classes obviously vary). That may be exactly why you've made 9:30 your goal but just appreciate that you've set a challenging goal for yourself. (I ran 10:06 as soph, 9:42 as a junior but only hit 9:39 as senior. I think I definitely could/ should have broke 9:30 in hs with more consistent training and better race focus. But the fact is I didn't until freshman year in college with a lot better coaching and training.)

Race environment will have a huge effect. If you can get in several invite type races with multiple 9:2X guys that would be a huge benefit. Pushing a pr down by 30 secs all by yourself without competition is pretty tough. Having other 9:5x guys in the race won't really help and may hurt if you get tied up in their pacing.

A smooth first lap of 68-69 secs, settling into 71-72 secs per lap, avoiding excessively slow 5th and 6th laps then making a long sustained drive from 600 is fairly obvious ideal end of season race plan. This is easier said than done. Focusing on 2000 or 2400 goal split helps avoiding fall off after mile split. If you can hit 6 laps at 7:08 you just have to run a 72/70 to hit 9:30 which is fairly manageable.

The problem is most guys in the 9:35- 9:50 range hit one mile at 4:40-4:45 and then run a 2:34 plus 3rd 800 which puts them at 7:14 and switching up to 69/67 off of 77 sec quarters is not usually realistic.

With this in mind, the majority of your track repeats should be learning to run efficiently at 71-73 sec/ 400 speed. The short rest 400s and 800s workouts listed above are the best way to improve this ability. A fair amount of race efforts at 800 and 1600 will help make 4:45 pace seem comfortable.

At dual/ quads I would recommend purposely running a strong negative split race. Ie Run first mile in 5:00-5:05 then close in 4:45.

Enjoy your last high school athletics season. Take it one race at a time. Good luck-

Don't do any all-out target intervals until the month before your target race. Run 60 miles a week and do 20-minute tempos in winter. In early Spring, start doing some 400's at mile race pace with lap rests and 12-mile hill runs three times a month. Get your mile time down to at least 4:30. The month before your target 3200m, do 3 weeks of 4 x 800, getting a little faster each week. Run easy the week of your race. Do the 4 x 800 at a bit faster than goal pace with 400m jog rests, no stopping. If you can run the 800's around 2:17-2:18, then you can break 9:30.

"Came close sort of" has a lot of good advice.

Specifically, using your dual meets as training. I was always trying to break a barrier and I went for it every time. Sometimes the weather is bad, the track is slow, or there just isn't enough competition.

In your small meets, be confident enough to run them like a small meet. Run a double every time. Either 800/3200 or 800/1600 or 1600/3200.

Like he said, pacing is very important. Don't go out too fast. Your orbit is 71-72 with an all-out last lap. Prob going to have to start the season at ~73-74 pace.

If I had to do it over (we ran 17 meets in outdoor, so you prob have much less) I have often thought I would do this goal pace workout in the small meets (if you knew you would win easily):

(For a 9:30 goal = 71.25 pace)

fast lap = 71

easy lap = ~80-82

1)

71-80-71-80-71-80-71-80 ... that is a 10:04

then improve to...

2)

2:22-82-2:22-82-2:22 ... that is a 9:50

then improve to ...

3)

2:58 -easy 200- 2:58 -easy 200- 2:22 ... that is a 9:40

1K-200-1K-200-800m

I don't know if Dellinger invented this kind of workout, but he used it to great effect 30 years ago (although he had his runners do it in training). It is classic goal-pace training.

Or, as has been said, do this:

"At dual/ quads I would recommend purposely running a strong negative split race. Ie Run first mile in 5:00-5:05 then close in 4:45"

This works very well too, especially if you run the 1600 the same way (say like 2:20, close in 2:12-2:14). Just like the 4:45 second 1600, it gives you the feeling and pace judgment for a 4:20-24 mile (66 a lap) without actually running one. If you run the 800 I would just try and run them fairly even like 60-64 or 61-63 = 2:04 or thereabouts.

That way you aren't burning yourself out trying to run a PR every meet, but practicing and callusing yourself for your goal in May and June. In the important races or any race where the conditions are good to go for it and do what "Came Close" says...specifically ...

Go out slow! Don't be dragged along! Don't go out faster than 2 seconds faster than your goal pace, You gain more than you give up by going out really conservative.

So at first for a 9:50:

72-74-74-74-74-75-75-all out

Clearly if you can keep the pace from dragging after the 6th lap, that is great, but most cannot.

Like he said, focus on an 800, 1600, 2400m target. The last 2 laps will take care of themselves. Just get good at judging those 2:22-2:26 paced 800s for later (these will be 2:28-30).

For a 9:40 like this:

71-73-73-73-73-73-73-all out

Then when you are in shape to target your goal:

~69-71-71-72-72-72-73-all out

Clearly some laps will drift a little high, and hopefully laps 5-6-7 won't drift too slow, but that is how it should be done.

Also I hate the mile and we already have a good miler[/quote]

I just noticed this remark by op. If you're really serious about your goal I would highly recommend working and racing with this good miler as much as possible. Shadow him in some mile races. Volunteer to rabbit for him in the mile if that's something he wants. Maybe he will help pace you in two mile. Please, please, please don't be that guy who can't stand being beaten by a teammate. Even if you don't like the guy, that's not the point, he's your teammate so take advantage while helping him out too.

It sounds like you actually have pretty good coaching and support. Don't waste it.

As far as hating the mile, to be blunt, get over it. Very few people break 9:30 for 2 m without also breaking 4:30 for 1 m. In all honesty, with modest 5k pr of 16:20 you almost definitely need to get your mile pr down into high 4:20s before attempting your stated goal. Again, good luck. Let us know how it turns out, regardless of end result-

Again, "Came close" has good advice.

The first season I was knocking on the door of 9:30 was junior yr indoors and I ran 4:27 / 9:33. I did it in the same week and felt that the races were very close to the same conditions and quality. Both were done on 200m flat indoor tracks.

About a week later I ran a 2:04 800 as part of a workout and then I ran 2:02 in a meet. I was not a good 800 runner, much better 2miler.

So, the good news is, at 2:00 as a junior, you are a solid 800m runner and should be able to run a good 1600. The bad news is, I agree with "Came close" you will need to be able to run 4:25-4:28 if you want to break 9:30.

If you ran 2:00 last yr, you should be able to run 1:58 this year at least, maybe much better, and the other times should be within your reach.

Kris Krinkle wrote:

If someone comes on here and tells u to run 8x72sec 400s ima find them and beat em up lol. Hate that joke. Srs tho, really depends on where ur coming from. Chances r ur in HS need some aerobic work. Get out there an run some miles then run some more then make em faster. Don't worry about doin 200 repeats dude just run long. I aint even gonna give you a number and set a limit in your mind. You can do upwards of 70 miles no joke. DOn't just start doin that one week. You def need to work your way up there. I can't give you a time guide but do it in 10 weeks.

This guy sounds like he has a 5th grade education, but he's somewhat right. You need a nice aerobic base to work with, I'd suggest running anywhere between 45-55 miles a week with a down week every 3rd week. Do not go upwards of 70 miles, thats a terrible idea. I'd say this right here is what you should do until you start doing workouts with your team:

S: 10-12 mile long run

M: 6 miles easy + 100m strides

T:7 miles easy + 100m strides

W: 1 mile WU, 4 mile tempo @ 5:40 pace or quicker, 1 mile CD

Th: 6 miles easy

F:1 mile WU, 4 mile fartlek, 1 mile CD

S: 7 miles easy

Thats a 48-50 mile week which is right where you should be. Feel free to throw in a 3 mile double run at least 6 hours before or after your other run for the day. Make the double a very slow pace, this will increase your fitness a lot without sacrificing energy. Make sure to switch things up too, don't run this weekly schedule every week. And if you start getting worn out, take an off day.

Good luck

Thanks for all of the advice! I appreciate the time and effort from everyone. Overall, how realistic is my 9:30 goal? our school record is around 9:34 and I'd like to break that, as well as qualify for the regional meet (around 9:27 every year)

It is based on so many factors that are hard to assess for people who have never met you. My candid opinion based on that I ran 9:33 and then under 9:30 before I ever ran under 2:00 in the 800m, whereas you have already run 2:00 last year ... so it is possible.

I was able to improve 30 seconds from 9th to 10th and then ANOTHER 25 seconds down under 9:30 from 10th to 11th, and I was running MUCH more than you in each grade ... so you have a good chance.

Again, I don't know you but if I was to put a PERCENTage chance on it based on the little I know I would say you have more than a 40% chance.

If you race indoors and run under 9:50 I would say your chances improve to 60%.

runningart2004 wrote:

2:00 800 is way better than a 10::00 3200m. I would say its even better than a 9:30.

Run more. Don't worry how much. Just run more. Get tired then run less. Feel good then run more.

Alan

I would say a 1:57-1:58 is closer to 9:30