Can LetsRun directly ask Salazar and/or Rupp what he takes in the way of suppliments with specific regard to thyroid med

google works well wrote:

[quote]google works well wrote:

Not true. Most people think a vocal minority are blowing this out of proportion. "Most people" in this case really constitutes the opinions of a few.

How can you possibly know this?

google works well wrote:

If WADA has evaluated and accepted it, is it any different from taking any other LEGAL supplements (vitamins, zinc, etc)?

Viren won his first two golds in 1972. The first Olympics in which blood doping was illegal was 1984. Would you say that blood doping was evaluated and accepted by IAAF and the Olympic committee for those 12 years? If your answer is yes, do you consider it fair for those three Olympics years and then suddenly unfair in 1984?

Viren didn't blood dope.

no horse in this race. wrote:

Viren won his first two golds in 1972. The first Olympics in which blood doping was illegal was 1984. Would you say that blood doping was evaluated and accepted by IAAF and the Olympic committee for those 12 years? If your answer is yes, do you consider it fair for those three Olympics years and then suddenly unfair in 1984?

Isn't it a bit naive to think that that would put this issue to bed?

Whitters wrote:

Direct but non-aggresively questioning on camera will but this issue to bed (or start more gossip), but surely our running media needs the balls to at least ask?! Why on earth haven't journalists been more direct in the face of ever growing talk on the matter?

better ask him about his asthma and allergy medicines too

http://www.dailyrx.com/olympian-galen-rupp-suffers-asthma-and-allergies

"Rupp takes several medications to control his asthma and allergies include Advair daily and before running, Combivent before running, as well as Singulair every night and Allegra for allergies."

no horse in this race. wrote:

Viren won his first two golds in 1972. The first Olympics in which blood doping was illegal was 1984. Would you say that blood doping was evaluated and accepted by IAAF and the Olympic committee for those 12 years? If your answer is yes, do you consider it fair for those three Olympics years and then suddenly unfair in 1984?

No, I would not say that "blood doping was evaluated and accepted by IAAF and the Olympic committee for those 12 years" because it wasn't.

If they had done research on it, and said something like, we have taken a look at Viren's methods, and nothing he does is illegal, and from what we have seen, does not enhance performance. Everyone is free to try....then I would be ok with it.

If the IAAF banned Iron Supplements, would you call all of the anemic runners dopers, retroactively?

It is my understanding that iron levels should (along with many other things in the body) should remain above a certain level, and sometimes, when training hard, the level drops below the healthy range. So, doctors prescribe iron supplements. But, it has been stated that iron is not performance enhancing in excessive amounts.

And by the same logic, thyroid levels also drop when training hard, and doctors prescribe thyroid medication, which has no effect on performance above normal levels.

So, what is the difference?

A performance enhancing drug is something like testosterone. Where, at normal levels, you are a mere mortal, and at excessive levels, you are better. There is a direct advantage to having above-normal levels of testosterone, and this is what makes it off limits.

I honestly believe an athlete should put no medication in their system. Zero.

Asthma, allergies, thyroid medications, whatever. If nature and genetics made your body so weak it can't handle these things then survival of the fittest: YOU are improving through artificial means.

If you follow through with that logic, you agree that athletes should be able to take steroids to repair muscle damage from training. It's just like taking iron to build back what was exhausted through training right? What about low testosterone levels due to a hard workout week. I should be able to inject testosterone to get it back to normal levels right? Hard training made my hemoglobin levels drop. Why can't I use EPO to bring them back to normal levels?

Not my regular handle wrote:

I honestly believe an athlete should put no medication in their system. Zero.

Asthma, allergies, thyroid medications, whatever. If nature and genetics made your body so weak it can't handle these things then survival of the fittest: YOU are improving through artificial means.

No medications at all? So if they get strep they should just wait it out instead of taking antibiotics to speed up the return? If they get the flu they should avoid antivirals?

Being a good runner isn't about not having asthma. It's about training hard and running fast. Asthma medication doesn't make you a better runner, it alleviates problems asthma could cause. This might indirectly cause you to improve because you were at a serious disadvantage before if your asthma was severe.

A fair question at a press conference;

Reporter (to Coach Salazar or Coach Schumacher): "The amount of USADA tests on Nike-based athletes is extremely disproportionate when compared to the rest of the elite track and field population. How does this impact your training? Do you feel targeted? Do you know a reason for the high number of tests?"

Alpha first wrote:

If you follow through with that logic, you agree that athletes should be able to take steroids to repair muscle damage from training. It's just like taking iron to build back what was exhausted through training right? What about low testosterone levels due to a hard workout week. I should be able to inject testosterone to get it back to normal levels right? Hard training made my hemoglobin levels drop. Why can't I use EPO to bring them back to normal levels?

Nice try, but not exactly.

While - "normal" - would be correct in your argument. The argument I made was that the supplements taken (iron, thyroid, vitamins) return a person to normal levels required for the average human AND (pay attention) provide no additional benefit when taken in excess.

So, here, the drugs themselves are in question, not the dosage. So, while taking testosterone to return to normal levels of testosterone may not yield performance improvements, the drug itself HAS THE CAPABILITY of enhancing performance.

So, no, it's not the same as taking any known PEDS to return to normal levels because those drugs have been proven to enhance performance.

So have hormones

How many Caucasian American men who have not taken thyroid medication have run under 13:00 in the 5k?

Ok. I think i see whats going on with goggle works well. he is basically taking the lawyer angle and at the same time establishing what exactly the facts are. Renato does the same thing in his defense that top Kenyans are clean. First he establishes the "fact" that epo does not work on top Kenyans. he does this, at least in his own head, by linking to a medical journal article that somewhat vaguely supports this view, and challenges anyone who disagrees with this fact to come up with authorized evidence that states that epo does in fact work on the very top Kenyans. So after establishing this fact that epo does not work on top kenyans, he goes on to state how absurd it is for kenyans to use epo since it doesn't even work for them.

So in this case, this dude establishes that:

fact 1: Rupp is legitimately sick, because he has a note from a doctor.

fact2: since it is thrown around letsrun threads that thyroid med magically stops working once you get to "normal", it must be true. Thus, it is established that it cannot possibly be a performance enhancer.

fact3: iaaf and wada have already banned every existing performance enhancer. yup, done research on every single one of them. not on their banned list, not a performance enhancer.

rekrunner wrote:

Viren didn't blood dope.

no horse in this race. wrote:

Viren won his first two golds in 1972. The first Olympics in which blood doping was illegal was 1984. Would you say that blood doping was evaluated and accepted by IAAF and the Olympic committee for those 12 years? If your answer is yes, do you consider it fair for those three Olympics years and then suddenly unfair in 1984?

Just interjecting for a moment, since Viren's name is being tossed around: I don't know whether Virn doped or not (I do not believe he did) but he did EXPLICITLY deny doing so in a sports illustrated article by Kenny Moore in 77-78

leaping lanny wrote:

How many Caucasian American men who have not taken thyroid medication have run under 13:00 in the 5k?

Who knows, but was David Moorcroft, a 3:49, 13:00 (pretty much solo effort) guy back in 1982 on thyroid meds, epo, sleeping at high altitude, doing workouts after races, running on underwater treadmills, etc over 30 years ago? My guess is he was out having way too many beers with the lads for recovery and carb replenishment. Rupp is currently only 1.1 seconds faster over 5,000 in a paced race, though he is likely capable of better now.

Sagarin wrote:

Who knows, but was David Moorcroft, a 3:49, 13:00 (pretty much solo effort) guy back in 1982 on thyroid meds, epo, sleeping at high altitude, doing workouts after races, running on underwater treadmills, etc over 30 years ago? My guess is he was out having way too many beers with the lads for recovery and carb replenishment. Rupp is currently only 1.1 seconds faster over 5,000 in a paced race, though he is likely capable of better now.

Wonderful, wonderful story. Still doesn't answer the question. How many healthy, non-thyroid problem having caucasians, with all their tread mills and altitiude tents, have managed to run under 13:00?

Trremendous wrote:

A fair question at a press conference;

Reporter (to Coach Salazar or Coach Schumacher): "The amount of USADA tests on Nike-based athletes is extremely disproportionate when compared to the rest of the elite track and field population. How does this impact your training?

Answer: It makes our athletes contract extremely rare diseases. Hypothyroidism, Asthma, Allergies, blood platelette diseases. It seems to have worked out rather well.

Trremendous wrote:

Do you feel targeted? Do you know a reason for the high number of tests?"

Answer: Might have something to do with Salazar's white paper, where he said its impossible to run as fast as Farrah and Rupp without drugs. Oh, and then there was the whole Mary Slaney thingy.

I think it's fairly clear NOP are not being completely open about the issue - if you read the limited material regarding what he's on then he sounds like the ultimate sick kid.

Sagarin wrote:

leaping lanny wrote:

How many Caucasian American men who have not taken thyroid medication have run under 13:00 in the 5k?

Who knows, but was David Moorcroft, a 3:49, 13:00 (pretty much solo effort) guy back in 1982 on thyroid meds, epo, sleeping at high altitude, doing workouts after races, running on underwater treadmills, etc over 30 years ago? My guess is he was out having way too many beers with the lads for recovery and carb replenishment. Rupp is currently only 1.1 seconds faster over 5,000 in a paced race, though he is likely capable of better now.

You sound like a politician. Instead of answering the question you bring up someone who doesn't meet the criteria in multiple areas. I think this is a valid question and I would really like to know the answer.