Rojo's quote on Bolt - MAJOR flaw in reasoning.

kanny wrote:

There's a reason why ostriches, versus say the emu, are the fastest bipedal runners. Yes, they generate a lot of power, but you're not going to see other bipedals do 12-13 foot steps at the high cadence that they do. I'd like someone here to actually figure out the ground contact time necessary for a 5'10" to be able to replicate that so that they could actually see how ridiculous the concept of "height doesn't matter" is.

So you don't believe in physics then?

I'm pretty sure Woods and James use drugs. Thousands of sure-fire prodigies grow up to be nobodies. You can't say that the ones who succeed are clean.

If he wants to compare to a baseball prodigy,try A-Rod.

The problem with your argument is that Lebron James and Tiger Woods are both using PEDs.

Woods definitely has connection to that platelet spinning doctor. Lebron is freakish, but hes a part of a massive NBA doping scheme (possibly HGH).

I want to believe Bolt is clean, but after recent events I am almost fully convinced he is not.

Roadrunners can run close to 20mph...not quite 43mph, but compared for its size thats very fast.

might be wejo wrote:

Yet in baseball, which many consider to be the most skill oriented of the major American sports, you have Bonds hitting 70 home runs on the juice.

rojo wrote:

Thanks for the defense.

Nobody considers baseball to be the MOST skill-oriented sport.

However, hitting a baseball thrown by a major league pitcher does take skill. Hitting home runs takes power, though. It has been shown time and time again that PEDs can make decent hitters into HR hitting machines - minimal skill necessary.

As far as I know, no PED will make you taller, one of the pre-requisites for being a dominant basketball player.

As far as I know, no PED will make you shoot a basketball better. PEDs in basketball are about avoiding injuries during an 82 game season and making you faster and stronger.

rojo wrote:

categorically wrote:

You really have to see the progression of most of these guys. Being a junior prodigy in sprinting does not make you a great senior sprinter. Most guys actually get slower as they grow in their 20s. Some improved a little bit then fell off. Some doped.

I think you are helping my case here.

To me the fact that Bolt was able to develop into a 100 guy is so abnormal - shows he's a freak. Yes most 100 guys don't improve. But we've got a guy everyone thought was going ot be a 400 guy running the 100.

The fact that Bolt ran sub-20 200 on several occasions as a junior shows that he clearly could have run 10 flat or sub 10 in the 100.

He didn't "develop" into a 100 guy. He just started running it.

Then he ran 10.03 in his first year and 9.69 in his second year.

His junior 400m time does not crack the top 25 all time. After he ran 45.35 at 17 he has only run slightly faster (45.28 PR). I think you are the only one who thought he was going to be a 400 guy. Because he basically quit running the 400 at 18.

Being a "freak" does not explain these things, rojo.

I feel that all these opinions that bolt could be clean or could be dirty are just that, an opinion. Saying Bolt is just an anomaly because he is 6'5" is not helping the argument that bolt is clean. No one is going into the whys or yah so what. Alright tell me this, why is being 6'5" so advantageous over a smaller sprinter? Are there muscular consequences that can propel a human to 9.58? I am assuming that most of the people on letsrun are not in the medical field and are not able to answer the whys. Do some research and bring some evidence to the table to backup your argument!

Nope. "Definitely is" and "might possibly be" are fundamentally different. All Rojo is saying is that Bolt might possibly be clean, not that he definitely is. It's a position that's virtually nonsensical to argue against in any logical way. On what basis could anybody say that it is impossible that Bolt is clean?

Physics is exactly what I'm basing my argument on. You didn't comprehend my post, then, and didn't bother doing the thought experiment because it's chock full of physics.

jsjsj wrote:

So you don't believe in physics then?

As usual, there are a lot of flaws in Rojo's logic.

First, as several people have pointed out here but Rojo seems to be ignoring, Ruth's accomplishment wasn't due to him just being better than everyone by a significant amount. He tried to do something different with his swing. It's not like everyone was trying to crank out homeruns, and he was the only one who could. Bolt would be like Ruth if everyone else was running without using their arms, and then he started pumping. Of course he would get a different result.

Also, LeBron isn't by far the best ever at his sport, as Bolt currently is. If you wanted to make a basketball comparison to argue that he is so advanced physically that no one in the world can compete with him, even with drugs, it would probably be Wilt Chamberlain.

Also, there's a reason why there's never been a person 5'6" or shorter who's broken 10.0 (non aided) for 100m despite PEDs and such.

Bolt's height is directly related to his success...

His levers are longer, his ability to apply force is near equal to those that are shorter..so his stride is longer...

Look at every sprinter and their hip extension will be at similar angles...so if you have an athlete with 4" higher hips and similar hip extension angles, then they would take fewer steps...which is what Bolt does.

I am not saying Bolt is clean or dirty, but his height is definitely a huge factor in his success. He is one of the first athletes to have the combination of height, power, and coordination. Some people are just genetic freaks like LeBron...

rojo wrote:

....That being said, I may have to write another article on how he could be doped as well.

WE've been getting a ton of emails. Many think LebRon is totally doped on HGH.

I'm a die hard heat fan and love Lebron, but I think Basketball players and Lebron specifically are among the most obvious users. First, the eye test, most of these guys are WAY more developed in areas commonly visually associated with PED's (Shoulders and biceps). Second, Basketball seem BY FAR the sport with the most rigorous demands on the body as far as wear and tear and staying healthy. Also, as I understand it, NBA drug policy is relatively lax. Seems very much like a look the other way league when it comes to PEDs-- understandably since its a Star driven league.

Rojo has hung out with Bolt. Bolt seemed like a cool guy. Therefore, Bolt can not be a cheat and Rojo will defend him until, and possibly after, Bolt finally admits cheating.

Could some of this improvement be due to him having a much better start later in his career?

nope to dope wrote:

Marion Jones was a "high school prodigy", and yet she doped.

Agreed- flawed logic.

I agree. Also, it is highly likely that Marion Jones started doping while she was in high school! She was a world-class sprinter by the time she was a junior in high school and as I recall she tried out for the Olympic Trials in 1992. At some point when she was still in high school she must have competed in International meets that subjected her to random drug testing. She failed to show up for an out-of-competition drug test and was going to receive a multi-year ban, so she hired prominent lawyer Johnie Cochran (of the OJ Simpson trial fame) to represent her in some type of arbitration hearing and managed to get off.

Usain Bolt is more similar to a juiced-up Barry Bonds than he is to a Babe Ruth.

When Babe Ruth started out, hitter tried to make contact rather than swing for the fences. Ruth revolutionized the game.

Bolt hasn't perfected a unique technique or done anything else to revolutionize the sprints. However, he has run some "Nintendo-type" times that just ridiculously fast. The 100m dash has been one of the most popular and highly watched events in track for the past 100+ years. For him to come along and drop the World Record by such a large margin when many of his peers have been caught doping themselves simply doesn't pass the "smell test."

He will be caught sooner or later.

boltis doped to the gills and if he isn't then lance wasn't.