Charlie Francis was a crackpot

who is Charlie Francus? sounds like an a-hole.

I neither agree nor disagree with the basic premise of this post, but I do have an observation to offer on the upper/lower hamstring issue:

For maybe a month or three weeks now I have had self-diagnosed proximal hamstring tendinopathy--soreness in the hamstring under the "sit bone" of my butt. It still hurts to do things like hurdle stretches with the leg straight at the knee.

I tried running a 100 and a 200 on this ham, with disastrous times resulting--not only could I not go 100%, I couldn't stretch it out, and get that extra reach I need to hit top gear. It killed.

I have since experimented with different running styles, and I have found one that works: Kim Collins mechanic. Lots of recovery, stepping-over, and shooting the foot down rather than out and down, and landing the foot right under the body, using faster turnover.

How was I able to effect a Collins mechanic? By actively concentrating my hamstring efforts AT THE KNEE JOINT rather than at the hip joint.

How is this possible, you ask? I must admit, it's a pretty amazing thing to be able to do. It requires 2 things: 1) keeping the knee very slightly less than fully extended, and 2) slightly advancing the timing of the leg snapping down, by increasing arm turnover and letting the legs follow.

It FEELS like I'm using the lower hamstrings but not the uppers--it FEELS like the knee joint is more stable and that the knee joint is where the force is focused, and it FEELS like the upper hamstring tendons are painless, even relaxed--I know they're not, but what they ARE is they are carrying force at a very slightly different time, a time that does not produce pain due to the impingement or whatever is produced by the injury.

Using this I took a quarter-second off my 100 time, still going only around 90% effort, maybe less, and I am able to continue training.

Compare these two vids of Collins, who has quick turnover and snaps the leg down so that his foot contacts immediately below him, and a guy like Thompson, who extends the lower leg to a greater degree before sweeping the leg rearward at the hip:

Collins, around 8:05

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXEMTyG37kg

Notice the angle of his lower leg as the foot is driven down to the ground--his lower leg barely, if at all, goes beyond vertical, except in maybe the very last stride, where he is extends and leans for the tape. (BTW, this tells you that his lean was timed absolutely perfectly...and it won him the race) The

Now Thompson, around 2:00

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SYHuylQcF8o

Notice that he achieves an angle beyond vertical with his lower leg (Frater in lane 1 is an even more exaggerated example, but he is difficult to see in this vid); but more than that, notice his timing, especially on acceleration: he first extends the lower leg, and THEN sweeps the leg rearward at the hip joint, rather than doing the 2 actions at exactly the same time, the rearward sweep is delayed, if only just.

I can do this, and it can be fast--but it KILLS the upper hamstring tendon...unlike the Collins mechanic, which doesn't bother it in the slightest.

Just an observation, that there are actions that can somehow emphasize, or de-emphasize, either the upper or lower hamstring, and any deficiencies present at these points.

Consider that Thompson has gone significantly faster than Collins, BTW, then think about what Francis was saying about upper and lower hamstrings.

I'm reading "speed trap"...it's an excellent book. Here's one or two rules in Charlie's system:

-No emphasis in calves and ankles at the gym.

-"less is more" philosophy. they had long, long recoveries...but the sets were at almost maximum velocities.

-no 400m reps. 300m reps is the longer that his athletes were running (and Ben cut it to 200m repeats as the longer, then you can see why Ben rarely ran 200m in the circuit)

-special focus in the cone drills.

-No single reps at maximal strenght in the gym.

-he wrote about East German workouts...specially something about Marita Koch running 400m at WR's pace in practice (they put 80 lights alongside track, 5 meters between oneand the other, for pacing purposes)

-He wrote about drug protocols of many athletes (some of them now prominent coaches like John Smith) like John Smith. And drug protocols of Russians and East Germans.

-He saw Udo Beyer doing reps of half-quarter squats (efortless) with 855lbs.

-Not all his athletes were on something. Dave Steen (Bronze in Seoul 88' Decathlon) wasn't interested in anabolics. He only took vitamin b-12 and other legal supplements.

Later i'm going to write more.

Dave Steen was NOT coached by Charlie Francis. He was coached by Andy Higgins at the University of Toronto Track Club

no $hitty coaches wrote:

Sick of people quoting that doper loser like anything he says is credible. I just re-read Charlie Francus Training System for the first time in 10 years and it's scandalous how ignorant and irrational he is. In one part he actually says that sprinters need to emphasize "upper hamstring" development, as if there are somehow anatomically distinct upper and lower segments of the hamstrings. If you're one of the people following him, you're a loser.

Development of “Upper Hamstrings” or “gluteal fold” “to provide a high capacity of hip extension during the key 'pawing' phase of foot contact with the ground”!!!

“Gluteal Fold” or “Upper Hamstrings” That's where your upper hamstrings meet your butt. If you have a well-developed posterior chain, this should be smooth — no fold. That’s why you can use a reverse leg press, hyper extension or reverse hyper extensions instead of ham curls you moron. I guess CFTS is too complex for you to understand.

theman401 wrote:

who is Charlie Francus? sounds like an a-hole.

theman401, judging from your response I suggest you to change the 401 to what in actual fact 401 stands for, more appropriate to your level such as the error man or the unauthorised man.

Francis was an excellent coach if one considers a good coach to be one who also knows how to get the most out of doping programs.

This is not a knock - I think Charlie was very good at what he did. There were a ton of other coaches who also were facilitating drugs and none of them had the success that Charlie had.

ultharth wrote:

Development of “Upper Hamstrings” or “gluteal fold” “to provide a high capacity of hip extension during the key 'pawing' phase of foot contact with the ground”!!!

“Gluteal Fold” or “Upper Hamstrings” That's where your upper hamstrings meet your butt. If you have a well-developed posterior chain, this should be smooth — no fold. That’s why you can use a reverse leg press, hyper extension or reverse hyper extensions instead of ham curls you moron. I guess CFTS is too complex for you to understand.

The presence of hamstring volume near the hip is a result of having a long muscle bellies and short tendons on the proximal side of the muscle; the absence of it represents the opposite traits. Both configurations are genetic and have nothing to do with training. There are no "upper" and "lower" parts of the muscles. With the exception of the short head of the biceps femoris, the same fibers run the entire span of the muscle, and whether force generated by the hamstrings results in hip extension or knee flexion is solely the result of the external forces acting on those joints. The idea that you can target the "upper" aspect of the hamstrings by doing hip extension exercises is pseudoscience. Charlie was a crank.

no shitty coaches wrote:

Charlie was a crank.

Yeah, a crank all the way to the bank.

Sure, there is totally different muscular involvement and recruitment pattern between the hyper extensions/ RLP and hamstrings preacher curl.

The main role of hamstrings in fast running is hip extension (hamstring is a secondary hip extensor) so my questions for you are:

Which of the exercises are stimulating more and contributing more to the faster running and how they contributing to higher functional facilitation of hamstring and better development of Ischial Tuberosity tendon? (talking here about tendon in upper hamstrings)

What’s the differences between forces distribution during maximum sprints in different areas of the muscle?

And finally: why the most of the hamstrings injuries are localized very near the muscle-tendon junction close to the origin (Ischium (Ischial Tuberosity) which is called upper hamstrings?

"Ten young, resistance-trained men were recruited from a university population to participate in the study. Employing a within-subject design, participants performed the SLDL and LLC to muscular failure using a load equating to their 8 repetition maximum for each exercise. The order of performance of exercises was counterbalanced between participants so that approximately half of the subjects performed SLDL first and the other half performed LLC first. Surface electromyography was used to record mean normalized muscle activity of the upper lateral hamstrings, lower lateral hamstrings, upper medial hamstrings, and lower medial hamstrings. Results showed that the LLC elicited significantly greater normalized mean activation of the lower lateral and lower medial hamstrings compared to the SLDL (p < 0.05). These findings support the notion that the hamstrings can be regionally targeted through exercise selection. Further investigations is required to determine whether differences in activation lead to greater muscular adaptations in the muscle complex"

Regional Differences in Muscle Activation During Hamstrings Exercise.

Schoenfeld BJ, Contreras B, Tiryaki-Sonmez G, Wilson JM, Kolber MJ, Peterson MD.

J Strength Cond Res. 2014 Jun 24

So I you can clearly see it can be stimulated differently because of biarticular nature of the muscle.

Reinforcing what ultharth just said, I quote myself:

"Just an observation, that there are actions that can somehow emphasize, or de-emphasize, either the upper or lower hamstring, and any deficiencies present at these points."

For me, it took a distinct injury somewhere in the ham to permit me to realize this fact, because it exaggerated the effects of the differential targeting, via the differential production of pain.

I'm now, and have been for some time now, completely healed from that injury, and have gone back to a more balanced use of the ham. Knee stabilization is important, but that pawing action does come from hip extension, to which the hams contribute significantly, especially keeping a stiff ham IMO.

I too am upset about this person that neither I nor anyone I know have ever heard of.

It’s not your fault, when you grow up and finally be able to leave your pre-school together with people you know, maybe you’ll be able to learn something about training, so it’s not your fault, not your fault.

So who’s ignorant now, hmmm?

I’ll stick to my first post “I guess CFTS is too complex for you to understand”

Looks like your comments won’t credible at all.

ultharth wrote:

http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/can-you-target-different-aspects-of-the-hamstrings/

I know I'm dealing with an idiot when you think posting a link to an article constitutes proof of your claim.

no $hitty coaches wrote:

ultharth wrote:http://www.lookgreatnaked.com/blog/can-you-target-different-aspects-of-the-hamstrings/

I know I'm dealing with an idiot when you think posting a link to an article constitutes proof of your claim.

Now I know that I am dealing with a child, you just cannot handle the fact that your knowledge of basic physiology is poor. And you cannot stand the fact that you are wrong. I have provided valuable information backing up what was in CFTS called “UPPER- HAMSTRING development”, and because of that you are having tantrum throwing toys out of your pram. As a matter of fact you have started this post and if you cannot cope with the available info, then maybe next time think twice.

From observation I can say that we are dealing here with $hitty coach referring to not just the user name but real life situation.

Still waiting for my answers:

Which of the exercises are stimulating more and contributing more to the faster running and how they contributing to higher functional facilitation of hamstring and better development of Ischial Tuberosity tendon? (talking here about tendon in upper hamstrings)

What’s the difference between forces distribution during maximum sprints in different areas of the muscle?

And finally: why the most of the hamstrings injuries are localized very near the muscle-tendon junction close to the origin (Ischium (Ischial Tuberosity)) which is called upper hamstrings?