In Response to Betsy on A.C.

Tor wrote: Did I specifically respond to you? Are you too dense to notice that others are discrediting Betsy as a "nobody" or she has "nothing to say to justify being on national television" or Frankie once used=Betsy not credible?

Fair enough. I stand corrected on that count.

But I still maintain you're glossing over my underlying point. Perhaps I've made it more difficult by inadequately separating my perception of her personality from the whole context of the Armstrong situation.

Let me put it this way: Let's say I had just awakened from a 15-year coma and knew nothing of the Armstrong doping scandal. I then hear the tone of all of Betsy's interveiws and her vehement delivery. My first reaction would be "Geez, what a bitch."

AGAIN, she has every right to speak of Armstrong with vitriole. She may be a very strong woman, but I also happen to think that in other aspects of her life she is probably a very controlling, confrontational and bitchy person. It's simply an observation...a feeling. I don't know her and I might be completely wrong, but that is quite simply my impression of her.

I've enjoyed reading the posts in this thread, but can we please stay on topic?

I started the thread to give my impression (unsolicited though it may have been) of Betsy ASIDE FROM THE LANCE ARMSTRONG SCANDAL. My point was that I perceive her as being a generally bitchy person, and I believe she probably is that way in most aspects of her life. I might also have implied that I wonder if anyone else agrees.

The ONLY tie to the Armstrong thing is this: If Lance called her a bitch (in general), he was probably right.

Tor wrote:

FWIW, if you read about Andreu's doping, his wife didn't know until she was watching him ride extremely well (in support of Lance) on a mountain stage during the Tour. She called him on it and basically gave him an ultimatum - doping or our marriage.

I'd have chosen doping all the way, even if I intended to quit. I can't imagine living with such a domineering ball-buster day in and day out.

She clearly holds a lot of anger, and directs it at the media and Lance.

Some people thrive on being the victim, it is their identity to an extent, somebody other than themselves has to be at fault. In this case, her life that she is angry about is Lance's fault, according to her.

Lance seems to be the exact opposite, as a strength and weakness at the same time, he does not get mad, he gets even and in his mind that meant doping up to win.

Both approaches are pretty tough ways to live your life, a victim or a bully.

There are no winners here. I can't imagine having a beer with her, and I can't imagine Lance would have a beer with me. She would not stop talking at me, and Lance would not have a thing to say to me.

I wonder what the rest of the interview will hold, Rojo and everyone seems to have judged the interview and Oprah on only the first half of the race here. Surely O saved some of the good stuff for the finish.

It seems that, not surprisingly, a lot of people have their minds made up already as either:

camp 1: they insist that there's something more that Lance needs to do

camp 2: they say what more can he do, he confessed

Bonds and Clemens denied it. Who says they have to confess? Isn't it up to them?

Lance has confessed, its his confession so it is gonna come in his words. Honestly, I prefer this to some "statement" drafted by a lawyer.

Really strange to me how his confession can elicit such passion from people. His family and kids must be hurting a lot more right now than Betsy Andrieu is.

Like I said, no winners. And cycling in America? geez I would say it is close to over at the end of the day here. It is not like if Usain came out and confessed, it is like if they held the olympics and there is only 1 winner (1 event) and the winer of the last 7 times and all the competition confess, that it has all been a sham, they'd shut the thing down.

Just my thoughts

Beaner in an El Camino wrote:

Citizen Runner wrote: In the SCA trial while under oath, Lance specifically denied having admitted PED use during that that conversation. He can't say what she wants him to say without admitting perjury.

That doesn't matter. The statute of limitations has expired with regard to the "trial" you mention.

I don't know what you were watching but to me, Betsy Andreu seems like an uncoached, normal person who has suffered at the hand of a bully for many years and when he finally "comes clean" he refuses to apologize and actually come clean. She seems like someone whose life has been destroyed by a man and she's furious when that guy won't give it up. You need to pull Lance's nuts out of your mouth and get a clue. She obviously isn't a celebrity and wasn't coached or rehearsed for her interview which Lance obviously was. She just seems like a normal person who had difficulty coping with her friend turning on her, bullying her and destroying her and her husband's life.

You mean "nut"

In other words, you prefer your women to be very passive. It speaks volumes that both you and Lance refer to Andreu as a bitch.

She could be more classy, but at least she's right.

I understand that her anger is justified with respect to Frankie's difficulties in the cycling world after parting ways with Armstrong. However, I haven't seen anywhere that the Andreu's have donated to charity Frankie's winnings while he was taking drugs, or all the money that Frankie got as his share of Armstrong's team winnings. People who live in glass houses ...

pot calling the kettle wrote:

I understand that her anger is justified with respect to Frankie's difficulties in the cycling world after parting ways with Armstrong. However, I haven't seen anywhere that the Andreu's have donated to charity Frankie's winnings while he was taking drugs, or all the money that Frankie got as his share of Armstrong's team winnings. People who live in glass houses ...

I agree with you in regards to Frankie.

In regards to Betsy, this is different. She told Frankie after the hospital incident that if he would start doping, she would split up with him and not marry him. So my assumption is that Frankie kept it a secret from her. When he came out with the news he doped, what was she supposed to do? She gave him another chance.

But Betsy never once flip-flopped in this whole story. She is the most integer and believable character in this whole LA mess.

pot calling the kettle wrote:

I understand that her anger is justified with respect to Frankie's difficulties in the cycling world after parting ways with Armstrong. However, I haven't seen anywhere that the Andreu's have donated to charity Frankie's winnings while he was taking drugs, or all the money that Frankie got as his share of Armstrong's team winnings. People who live in glass houses ...

Try to keep up... Lance never actually gave all of his teammates a share of his winnings, but it certainly sounded good in interviews. "Glass houses?" The Andreus have more than paid for his brief stint as a doper. Armstrong is one of the biggest frauds in all of sports and you're being nit-picky about Frankie Andreu's winnings as a cyclist?!

Beaner in an El Camino wrote:

... her general demeanor exudes trailer trash bitchiness.

True, but don't evaluate the truth or falsehood of a message based on the messenger's nuances of delivery. After all, Stephen Hawking's general demeanor exudes motorized chair vegetable-ness.

truestory wrote:

Also should be noted that Betsey is exactly nobody. The wife of a former cyclist doesn't have anything to say that justifies an interview on national television.

THIS. For the love of god, why does anyone think that this woman has anything interesting to say besides bitter invective?

Beaner in an El Camino wrote: I am very simply stating that Betsy strikes me as someone who probably isn't very nice as a person in general....

Betsy has some emotional issues, not anywhere near as many as Kathy Lemond. They both strike me as women hell-bent on protecting their husbands. Reality blurs.

Tor wrote:

In other words, you prefer your women to be very passive. It speaks volumes that both you and Lance refer to Andreu as a bitch.

No, I prefer that women (and people) simply be nice and civil. There's a difference between being aggressive and assertive; Betsy seems aggressive. A person can be nice while still being strong and assertive. She seems to have the proverbial "attitude" that usually paints a person as being chronically difficult and abrasive.

And it speaks nothing that Armstrong and I both call her a bitch. He spoke as such out of fear and anger that he'd been exposed by her. I am simply making an observation, and my observation is no different than it would be if I encountered Betsy every day at the office. She just doesn't seem like a nice person.

Again, compare her to her husband. Has Frankie not been wronged by Lance? Yet when he speaks of the matter he is not attacking the interviewers with flame in his eyes and raised veins in his neck. He expresses his frustration and anger in an articulate, civil manner. (Incidentally, the same goes for Tyler Hamilton.) Therefore, the impression I get is that Frankie is probably a well-grounded and likeable person. Such is not the case with his wife.

Positive Split Guy wrote:

Even if it is all true, why is it okay for to repeat what she overheard during a cancer patient's conversation with a doctor?

I thought things like that were to stay private?

The fact that her husband was a user also somewhat devalues anything Frank and/or Betsy have to say on the matter.

They would be a million times more credible to me if the confession happened while Lance was still their meal ticket. It's interesting that they're forthcoming only after a serious falling out.

buy a vowel wrote:

Try to keep up... Lance never actually gave all of his teammates a share of his winnings,

Apparently you have no clue about how teams handle compensation in professional cycling. Sorry I don't have time to educate you Dilbert.

She came off wonderfully. Liestrong lied on last night, and the continued lies--such as falsely claiming he did not blood dope during his comeback--have sealed his fate for good.

Liestrong will almost certainly never again compete in a sanctioned event. And good riddance to the psycho.

str8 klownin wrote:

She seems like someone whose life has been destroyed by a man and she's furious when that guy won't give it up. ... She just seems like a normal person who had difficulty coping with her friend turning on her, bullying her and destroying her and her husband's life.

She also seems like someone who has built their life on this particular fight and is unwilling to let it go. Now that a conclusion seems to be near, she is maintaining the fight because it has become ingrained in her identity. The fight has become more important than the outcome.

If her life is "ruined", she is at least 50% to blame. Despite the wrong that was (repeatedly) done to them, they could have chosen a different path. They are the ones that chose to go from losing a job for refusing to dope ... to ... I'm going to exact my revenge on that ba$tard if it's the last thing I do. They are the ones that took it from being about business to making it a personal quest.

I'll grant that Lance is responsible for all that happened following, but if they don't pick the fight to begin with, then there is no "life of misery", just acceptance of the inability to compete without doping and then living with the choice you make and feeling good about making the right choice.

I understand the whole friendship angle, but lots of guys fire their friends in both business and sports.