Magness: My Interactions With Lance Armstrong

He was a "guy's guy" for the urban metrosexuals wearing stupid hats and thick framed glasses.

unicorns wrote:

I am almost tempted to explain how things really work in the sports world it just isnt worth the effort. If you believe that Salazar and his boys are clean then I envy you. Wish my attitude wasnt so jaded and I believed that every white guy who drops a 1:52 last 800 on a 1500 meter world champion at the end of a 5k, when two years prior didnt even have the basic speed to run 1:52, is clean then the world would be a lot less complicated. There is a very clear reason why Magness said what he did, just like there is a very clear reason why Alan and Kara left after short stays. Have fun in fantasy land!

Magness didn't really say anything, and I bet you didn't even read it. There are a lot of flaws in what he wrote. My girlfriend is just as seriously focused at salsa class. Famous people are often treated the way Magness describes.

...You do know that Magness or any current or former Nike/NOP runner could use the national whistle blower protection law to make a fortune for themselves?

And they should, if I am wrong.

--I'm telling you for a fact that Salazar's guys are clean.

I know and have met most of them, and they pass the real life test to me, so no fantasy land needed, chucklehead.

coach bigfoot wrote:

Why would he say anything when it's his word vs. NIKE? There's no way he would win and I'm sure there's some sort of incentive (negative or positive) to keep his mouth shut. Might be a pay check, might be a death threat.

Again, Magness talks about how importing "doing it right" is to him.

The whistle blower law gives him huge protection.

Otherwise, if he is saying nothing, then he is complicit, and as guilty of the crime he says he hates to his runners.

You think Magness is a hypocrite?

I don't think so, and any agreement he signed to not disclose anything...would not hold up if he is not disclosing illegal activity.

The most likely answer is benign.

If not than Magness is a coward for not coming forward.

optional wrote:

I've thought from day one that Magness has been trying to shed some light on the Oregon Project without really saying anything. It's like he doesn't want to fully blow the whistle, but definitely wants people to figure it out for themselves.

This was another article that I thought did that.

After seeing how people who outed Lance were treated, I don't blame him for doing it this way.

Magness has had the whistle blower law at his disposal any time.

Magness states how important it is to him and his athletes to do it the right way.

Magness writes about how important the class he took in PEDS use by pro cycling was to him.

If Magness stayed a day longer than if he saw PED use by NOP, then Magness is a coward and a fraud.

If Magness saw anything, he should have contacted an attorney, filed a whistle blower act claim / case...and followed his values.

As for Salazar's friendship with Armstrong... Armstrong fooled a lot of people. He fooled most people in the USA most of the time.

Truly, if Magness or anyone else has any real knowledge of Salazar or NOP..or anyone within 100 miles of Beaverton using PEDs, go to a lawyer, do a whistle blower case, make yourself some $$$.

A Duck, how do you explain athletics west? The Magness article is extremely illuminating for who isn't mentioned.

storngarm wrote:

http://running.competitor.com/2013/01/news/magness-my-interactions-with-lance-armstrong_64596

Lance commanded attention wherever he went. He had a very intimidating presence and a way of interacting with people that almost made you want to do whatever he said. He drew people in with his ability to be a “guy’s guy” — throwing out jokes and dropping curse words as if everyone in the room was in the locker room or just hanging out at the bar. He portrayed himself as one of the guys, someone who just wanted to have fun. It was almost as if he was downplaying the training he was doing as he got back into triathlon.

Lets be honest, we all wish we were Lance.

No, I don't. I couldn't live with myself if I lied about something for 15 years. And getting attention is a different ballgame than being loved.

It sounds like he highly suspects NOP athletes and coaches because of their "win at any cost" attitude, but perhaps does not have direct knowledge of doping. Maybe even second hand accounts or off-hand remarks. That would explain why he wouldn't come forward with anything concrete and can't name names. I have been wondering for many years if Nike, as a whole, could be held accountable in some way for the multitude of doped athletes they employ.

I'm not taking a position one way or the other on this discussion, but I think most everyone is misinterpreting the whistle blower act, what rewards might be forthcoming from whistle blowing, and how severance packages are written. The whistle blower act does not guarantee a monetary reward. It does not provide full protection against employer retaliation. Severance packages often contain non-disclosure clauses that place severe legal and financial consequences on certain disclosures. I know that for a fact because I've had to sign them on two different occasions.

My point is that it's not "Blow the whistle, get a reward." That's not what the act does. Look it up.

Mississippi Darkness wrote:

A Duck, how do you explain athletics west? The Magness article is extremely illuminating for who isn't mentioned.

Here is how I explain Athletics West.

Harry Johnson was one of the lowest, vile, jack assed personalities who ever walked the earth. Prick is too nice of a word for him, He was a sociopath and bully and an egotist to be sure. But if you came from his South Eugene Program, he was your pied piper and Geoff Hollister had his back.

If you have some specifics you'd like me to comment on, ask away. There are probably better people to answer than me, tho.

A Duck wrote:

OJ wrote:

Let me get this straight: you're saying that Bible thumpers never lie or cheat?

Let me get this straight, you don't understand context and you've never read this board before?

You're avoiding the question. You said "They are all extremely religious -- to the point where the idea of them using PEDS is insane"

So are you saying bible thumpers never lie or cheat, or not? Simple question. Yes or no

fisky wrote:

I'm not taking a position one way or the other on this discussion, but I think most everyone is misinterpreting the whistle blower act, what rewards might be forthcoming from whistle blowing, and how severance packages are written. The whistle blower act does not guarantee a monetary reward. It does not provide full protection against employer retaliation. Severance packages often contain non-disclosure clauses that place severe legal and financial consequences on certain disclosures. I know that for a fact because I've had to sign them on two different occasions.

My point is that it's not "Blow the whistle, get a reward." That's not what the act does. Look it up.

It does more than you suggest, yet some depends on whether the blower is actually in the right.

A Duck wrote:

Let's see, what do Salazar, Rupp, Ritz and Mo all have in common? --They are all extremely religious -- to the point where the idea of them using PEDS is insane.

Good point. Religiosity is a major predictor of not using PEDs. Or murdering. Or any other crimes.

A Duck wrote:

If they were caught using PEDS the following things would happen. 1.) There would be a Congressional Investigation against Nike. Don't think so? Get real. The scandal would be enormous.

Didn't stop Salazar's friend and confidante Lance Armstrong from systematically doping himself and his team, paying off officials and extorting anyone who spoke against him, did it?

The argument that "it would be crazy for them to do it, so they couldn't be doing it" is intellectually barren.

storngarm wrote:

http://running.competitor.com/2013/01/news/magness-my-interactions-with-lance-armstrong_64596

Lance commanded attention wherever he went. He had a very intimidating presence and a way of interacting with people that almost made you want to do whatever he said. He drew people in with his ability to be a “guy’s guy” — throwing out jokes and dropping curse words as if everyone in the room was in the locker room or just hanging out at the bar. He portrayed himself as one of the guys, someone who just wanted to have fun. It was almost as if he was downplaying the training he was doing as he got back into triathlon.

Lets be honest, we all wish we were Lance.

THIS was the most interesting quote in that article, to me anyway:

"This past fall the college cross country team I coach was preparing for a race in Austin, Texas. I got the word that Lance would be competing the same race. It briefly crossed my mind to take my athletes over to meet Lance, giving me bonus points for being the “cool” coach who knew someone insanely famous. Instead, in our pre race huddle, I simply told my team, “Lance Armstrong is in your race. Beat him. He cheated and took drugs and you guys are doing it the right way. Go beat someone who took EPO.”

Magness isn't into pulling punches, it would seem.

Inside Edition wrote:

Makes You Wonder wrote:

He doesn't mention any of the Oregon Project athletes he directly coached (except Areson, who left with him) when he talks about top level athletes who "do things the right way." It makes you wonder -- was part of why Magness left his unwillingness to be part of a doping culture in the Oregon Project? Salazar was "friends" with Lance, after all.

Magness started a relationship with Areson and that was not allowed in the program. Just like at Hansons.

This was a simple transaction. Salazar just didn't accept the relationship and the two of them were forced to leave.

Magness recently added "Met Jackie Areson" to his Facebook timeline as a milestone. It seems pretty clear that their relationship is serious and might not have fit the Oregon Project goals or rules.

__

nah, I'm going with the 'albeto, rupp, mo, ritz and centro are hardcore dopers' thesis, thanks.

Good article but Magness was a little naive in 2011. Everyone knew at that point that he doped. But he just didn't want to see it.

A Duck wrote:

--I'm telling you for a fact that Salazar's guys are clean.

I know and have met most of them, and they pass the real life test to me, so no fantasy land needed, chucklehead.

Don't you understand that this (wether or not they are clean) means nothing? Coming from someone anonymous on letsrun is one thing, but another thing is that there have been soooo many people thinking the exact same thing about numerous cheaters. Being a nice guy doesn' t mean you don't cheat, your arguments are intellectually flawed.

agip wrote:

nah, I'm going with the 'albeto, rupp, mo, ritz and centro are hardcore dopers' thesis, thanks.

Not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, all of the guys mentioned were pretty damn talented to begin with, and Rupp, Ritz, and Centro were all low 8:40 guys coming out of high school, Rupp and Centro on low mileage. Moreover, Rupp ran 13:37 the summer after high school, 28:15 as a true frosh in college, and Ritz won a bronze medal in world cross, dropped a 13:27 as a true frosh, and had already run an 8:11 two-mile (same as Webb) and had an enormous base before he joined Salazar's group. Goucher? Well he went from 13:11 to nowheresville back to 13:10. He did come back, but he didn't really improve.

I think people get suspicious of the various associations, the thyroid medication, the iron bullet injections, and the synthetic altitude house, all of which may skirt the envelope of legality. Forget about drugs. I don't see Ritz breaking 13:00 without that house. The thing is, Ritz had one great year coming off of his base with Hudson before lighting up the track, but his 10k PR is not really any better than one would've otherwise expected. Heck, the Brojos projected him to be the first American under 27:00, yet Ritz struggled to make the Olympic team and was nowhere near being able to kick with his teammates, despite doing purportedly the same workouts. Yes, he didn't have the same base, but, then again, he may just lack the raw leg speed.

Rupp and Mo's finishes at the Olympics do make you have to wonder though. Heck, I think if Galen had stuck on Mo like glue and not waited until the end to make his move, he may very well have won gold. Impossible? No, not with raw talent, high altitude living/low altitude training, and an underwater treadmill to stave off injury and put in more miles? Improbable? Well, probably.

It's up to others to decide. I do know that we've never had a more talented schoolboy than Rupp, unless you think he was doing drugs then, considering what he did with relatively low mileage. I mean, if Cam Levins breaks 13:00 and 27:00 this year, is it because of drugs or hard work, or do drugs give him the ability to sustain the kind of mileage he is doing, whereas, Al Sal's group has the live high/train low and run extra miles in the pool down to a science?

I don't know how I feel about this. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility that Ritz's 2:07 marathon was clean, unless you think Steve Jones was dirty back in the early to mid-80s.

A Duck, while I get the gist of your point about Catholic morality, I have Catholic friends that throw morality completely out the window when under pressure. It's almost like Catholicism has a built in, "Sin, but confess and repent" repeatedly mentality built into it. I'd like to think these guys are clean, but, I just don't know. It is true that Wejo went from essentially a 4:30 high school mile at low altitude to a 28:06 PR. Ritz, Centro, and Rupp were a heck of a lot more talented as preps. What about Jager? Is he doped up too? I mean, 8:06 in his first year of steepling and really his first full healthy year. And he maintained his fitness for a LONG time, having opened up at Mt. Sac. Is Jerry's group under the same kind of pressure?

Barakus Obama wrote:

Being a nice guy doesn' t mean you don't cheat, your arguments are intellectually flawed.

Ironic that you chose this particular moniker to pen what you did.