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-80 Below Zero
Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/13/2013 3:31AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Sure Sarah Baxter is a great cross country runner but cross country is not where the attention is focused during the Olympics. Mary Cain will win the 1500m 2016 OG Final!!!!
name game
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/13/2013 6:33AM - in reply to -80 Below Zero Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
baxter is far better. she outclassed nike sponsored cain on a nike course while being coached by nikes alberto salazar... baxter ran for a hs team and a hs coach. she could probably break 9 in the 3k given a perfectly paced race and overlarge track as cain had
-80 Below Zero
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/13/2013 6:58AM - in reply to name game Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Uh no. Cain has more speed than Baxter. Baxter would get dusted on the track against Cain. Baxter should make the Olympic Games in 2020 but Cain will be there in 2016 and beyond.
watchout
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/14/2013 8:31PM - in reply to -80 Below Zero Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Baxter is 2-0 vs. Cain ...
worst poster
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/14/2013 8:41PM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
That fact will long be a trivia question answer.
The rocket.
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/14/2013 8:43PM - in reply to -80 Below Zero Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Both are the best ever. This is an amazing time to be following girls prep running.

I wouldn't be surprised to see a high school girl (or two) shatter the 9:30 2 mile mark in the next two years.
Matthew Foley
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/14/2013 8:53PM - in reply to -80 Below Zero Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
shut up old farts
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/14/2013 11:40PM - in reply to Matthew Foley Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
How about you idiots stop comparing them and just enjoy witnessing their amazing accomplishments!! They are very different runners with very different strengths.... proclaiming that one runner is better than the other is stupid and pathetic.
watchout
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/14/2013 11:52PM - in reply to The rocket. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

The rocket. wrote:I wouldn't be surprised to see a high school girl (or two) shatter the 9:30 2 mile mark in the next two years.


Me either. Might even be under 9:25 or 9:20 by the end of the decade.
CAGuy
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/15/2013 11:54AM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

watchout wrote:

Baxter is 2-0 vs. Cain ...


This ^^

But as others said, these are different athletes. I would bet Sarah ends up a 10k / marathoner, while Mary ends up a middle distance start. We are fortunate to have two great stars come up together, similar to Ritz/Webb/Hall for the guys years ago.
watchout
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/15/2013 7:44PM - in reply to CAGuy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

CAGuy wrote:


watchout wrote:

Baxter is 2-0 vs. Cain ...


This ^^

But as others said, these are different athletes. I would bet Sarah ends up a 10k / marathoner, while Mary ends up a middle distance start. We are fortunate to have two great stars come up together, similar to Ritz/Webb/Hall for the guys years ago.


Exactly what I was thinking yesterday - Baxter (Ritz), Cain (Webb), and Neale (Hall) were all very very good this fall, and it will be interesting to see what happens this spring.
High Wire
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/15/2013 10:24PM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
And Baxter would be 0-2 if they met over 1500m, Cain's best distance. It's Cain's turn to shine, and it will be by far more than the few seconds that she gave up over 5K of mud at NXN.

As I stated back in November, Cain will be sub-9:40, Baxter sub-9:50 for the full two miles. At this point, Cain is the surer bet of those two predictions.


watchout wrote:

Baxter is 2-0 vs. Cain ...
watchout
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/15/2013 10:41PM - in reply to High Wire Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

High Wire wrote:

And Baxter would be 0-2 if they met over 1500m, Cain's best distance. It's Cain's turn to shine, and it will be by far more than the few seconds that she gave up over 5K of mud at NXN.

As I stated back in November, Cain will be sub-9:40, Baxter sub-9:50 for the full two miles. At this point, Cain is the surer bet of those two predictions.


watchout wrote:

Baxter is 2-0 vs. Cain ...



I certainly don't disagree with your first point, and don't necessarily disagree with the second either.

Perhaps you missed my point, though: This thread states that Cain is superior (with no qualification) to Baxter... yet Baxter has raced Cain twice, and won both times.

Baxter is the better xc and possibly distance runner, Cain is the better mid-distance runner. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else. But it's hard to say one is superior to the other when they have had two chances to race, and came up short both times.
broken arrow
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/15/2013 10:55PM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If Cain stays injury free, and I hope she does, she will break 2 minutes in the 800m and run in the 4:05 range in the 1500m in HS.
watchout
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/15/2013 11:10PM - in reply to broken arrow Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

broken arrow wrote:

If Cain stays injury free, and I hope she does, she will break 2 minutes in the 800m and run in the 4:05 range in the 1500m in HS.


Agreed
High Wire
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/15/2013 11:55PM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Let's put it in event comparative terms: Cain is better than Baxter at HER best event, based on time percentage, than Baxter is over Cain in hers. Also, this margin is likely to grow, and absolutely no one would be surprised with a Cain over Baxter NXN next year.

The 0-2 record is an artifact of the fact that they have only matched in Baxter's domain thus far. On the track it would be easily reversed, and by a larger percentage margin for any distance 2 miles on down (5K is closer, but advantage goes to Cain due to her kick)


watchout wrote:


High Wire wrote:

And Baxter would be 0-2 if they met over 1500m, Cain's best distance. It's Cain's turn to shine, and it will be by far more than the few seconds that she gave up over 5K of mud at NXN.

As I stated back in November, Cain will be sub-9:40, Baxter sub-9:50 for the full two miles. At this point, Cain is the surer bet of those two predictions.


watchout wrote:

Baxter is 2-0 vs. Cain ...



I certainly don't disagree with your first point, and don't necessarily disagree with the second either.

Perhaps you missed my point, though: This thread states that Cain is superior (with no qualification) to Baxter... yet Baxter has raced Cain twice, and won both times.

Baxter is the better xc and possibly distance runner, Cain is the better mid-distance runner. Both have their strengths and weaknesses, just like everyone else. But it's hard to say one is superior to the other when they have had two chances to race, and came up short both times.
watchout
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/16/2013 12:31AM - in reply to High Wire Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

High Wire wrote:

Let's put it in event comparative terms: Cain is better than Baxter at HER best event, based on time percentage, than Baxter is over Cain in hers. Also, this margin is likely to grow, and absolutely no one would be surprised with a Cain over Baxter NXN next year.

The 0-2 record is an artifact of the fact that they have only matched in Baxter's domain thus far. On the track it would be easily reversed, and by a larger percentage margin for any distance 2 miles on down (5K is closer, but advantage goes to Cain due to her kick)


I also wouldn't agree with that.

But if one person was superior (flat out) to the other, wouldn't they always win? As that wasn't the case... is Cain clearly superior to Baxter, or do they both have strengths and weaknesses, and in the two times they've met, Baxter has come out on top (whether or not the fact that the event was closer to Baxter's peak than Cain's is considered)?


My point is that you should at least wait until Cain has beaten Baxter before declaring she is superior to Baxter, because up to this point that has not been the case (Baxter undefeated in XC and vs. Cain, while Cain has done very well at 1500 and now very well in her first attempt at 3k)
High Wire
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/16/2013 1:18AM - in reply to watchout Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Clearly this is over your head. Good luck in keeping up with what is about to happen.


watchout wrote:



I also wouldn't agree with that.


watchout
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/16/2013 2:38AM - in reply to High Wire Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

High Wire wrote:

Clearly this is over your head. Good luck in keeping up with what is about to happen.


watchout wrote:



I also wouldn't agree with that.





Sorry, typo (which should be obvious given all my comments on this topic). Should have said "wouldn't DISagree" (just as I have been saying all along).

Once again: Cain is very good at the 1500. Baxter is very good in cross country. And Baxter is 2-0, which makes it hard to say Cain is "superior" given their racing history.

Think of it another way, which I've also mentioned earlier today -- Cain is much like Webb was (without the later arising strategy problems or whatever you want to call them) while Baxter is much like Ritz was (Great at longer distances, not so good at shorter distances in comparison to peers of the time), and Neale is much like Hall was (not quite as notable as either, but still clearly a mega talent and was a co-favorite in cross, and will continue to be during track particularly if she opts for the 2 mile over the mile... though she focused on the mile last year, and as the reasons for that haven't changed much she might once again this year).

All three were good. Webb (and Cain) had the most impressive mark. But Ritz and Hall also had good marks, and Ritz was the multi-time national champion.

Very similar situation, in my estimation...
Jerome Kopf
RE: Mary Cain is Superior to Sarah Baxter 1/16/2013 9:42AM - in reply to broken arrow Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
If Cain is not the first in HS to run sub-2, look to either Emma Gallagher or Daesha Rogers to do it. Gallagher has already run an indoor 600 in 1:30.56 this year and in 2012, as a freshman, ran a sub 2:10 in the 800, and has better times than Cain in the 400. Rogers in not in HS yet. Gallagher's upper body strength appears to be far superior to that of Cain but she lacks Cain's aerobic base.
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