1999 1500m WC: A Case Against El G? Please give opinions

How good do you think you are at judging exertion levels from external cues? Seems like a pretty thin way to judge doping.

He had a nice lead and was easing up to the finish.

Getting that extra 1.65 seconds to match his PR would cause a little strain.

I get what you're saying, but how can we tell whether or not someone from this era was a true freak of nature or they doped their way to superior fitness? That's just another thing that sucks about performance enhancing drugs - the skepticism they bring about. At least El G demonstrated this incredible ability consistently across years and races - the likes of which we do not see with Makhloufi. (Not that El G wasn't using the whole time. None of us can say.)

the race is bonkers

not just el g, but the whole supporting cast

is there any evidence against el g-apart from the fact it seems obvious

the IOC had their chance last year-of course they reluctantly retested only 100 samples and caught a few eastern european randommers

Guys, he wins BECAUSE he's able to hold his form and go fast while super tired. Look at him when he is lying on the track - he's totally exhausted. However, I still think EPO was rampant then.

Drug believers = Dumb.

There were so many, many dopers in that final - like Reyes Estevez Lopez. It makes you wonder is El G like Armstrong, just that much better that he could dominate while being clean?

The Dingo wrote:

I generally try to give athletes the benefit of the doubt when it comes to doping

The greatest miler of all time looks good in a race and the only explanation is PEDs. So much for that benefit of the doubt.

MdeN wrote:

The Dingo wrote:

I generally try to give athletes the benefit of the doubt when it comes to doping

The greatest miler of all time looks good in a race and the only explanation is PEDs. So much for that benefit of the doubt.

El G. never had a bad race.......not one.

codger wrote:

[quote]MdeN wrote:

El G. never had a bad race.......not one.

Here we have a guy who obviously doesn't know what he's talking about. El G had several bad races. (Assuming bad means didn't win).

the case against el guerrouj:

first exhibit: you tube

note the way the defendant appears comfortable on the home straight

some interesting ob servations/anectdotes i picked up watching the vid (thanks for link):

1.) holman looks like, "ohhh crap, what have i gotten myself into?!"

2.) i dont think morceli could possibly pull his pants up any higher

3.) the second moroccan in the field looks like he hasn't slept in about 2 months

4.) i saw cacho this past summer in barca- he's as big as a freaking house, and smokes at least a pack of cigs a day

5.) gerrouj- the arab lance

6.) that one spaniard might just be cam levins' father

7.) totally weak to have made it a time trial with a pacemaker

8.) drugs or not, great effort by estevez

El G is fast precisely because he is able to relax his body and face. See Usain Bolt > Tyson Gay

Also see Daniel Komen and Kenny B most races. There are some exceptions to this rule however see Lagat

I miss the old days pre-1995 when the pros only had steroids and blood doping to cheat. Cram, Coe, and Aouita actually looked like it took a painful sacrifice to break a world record. Teeth gritting agony.

EPO had no test and Ron Clarke way back in 1991 knew about it and predicted what was going to happen.

Yobes Ondieki was the first sub 27:00 10k runner at the exact time Clarke made that statement. He ran for Iowa State and never even won an NCAA title.

That 1999 race with El G in my mind was incredible and too incredible. I was watching it in bed at 11:00 pm and was on the phone with an old friend and had to call him back. I couldn't believe what I was seeing.

El G was running 29:00 10k's every day for morning runs from what I read about his training.

What genious secret training program could take a 19 year old 13:48 5000 runner to that?

Maybe you should check your facts before accusing El G of doping. A 29:00 10k is not even tempo run pace for him. That's entirely likely that he could do that every morning. But even if it was tempo pace, you would expect a miler to do more intense work than a longer distance guy.

codger wrote:

MdeN wrote:

The greatest miler of all time looks good in a race and the only explanation is PEDs. So much for that benefit of the doubt.

El G. never had a bad race.......not one.

El Guerrouj finished 8th in the 1500m during the 2004 edition of the Rome Golden League Meet.

1500m

1 Ramzi Rashid BRN 3:30.25

2 Lagat Bernard KEN 3:30.81

3 Baala Mehdi FRA 3:31.25

4 Songok Isaac Kiprono KEN 3:31.94

5 Silva Rui POR 3:32.13

6 Kipchirchir Alex KEN 3:32.35

7 East Michael GBR 3:32.37

8 El Guerrouj Hicham MAR 3:32.64

9 Willis Nicholas NZL 3:32.68

10 Yemmouni Mounir FRA 3:32.97

11 Liefers Gert-Jan NED 3:33.87

12 Sullivan Kevin CAN 3:34.43

13 Higuero Juan Carlos ESP 3:34.48

14 Shabunin Vyacheslav RUS 3:35.50

15 Selmouni Anis MAR 3:37.36

16 Korir Paul KEN 3:37.69

Hatungimana Arthémon BDI DNF

Kipkurui Benjamin KEN DNF

Lelei David KEN DNF

Obrist Christian ITA DNF

The time was quite fast though.

http://www.time-to-run.com/track/goldenleague/2004/roma.htm#15mr

El G never had a bad race? Atlanta 1996 Olympics.