Renato, How are your athletes?
Renato, How are your athletes?
I'm now in Kenya (Iten) for following my group, and read the last posts (it's clear that the goal is to reach 2000 posts, but after we can stop this thread...).
My athletes now are recovering from the tough training for WCCCh. Now I have some athlete competing in Gulf Championships in Bahrain, but are not big races. One of them is Nicholas Kemboi, that is the last athlete gone to Qatar (and now Qatar doesn't accepr more new stranger athletes, because there is the queue from African Countries...). Last year, Nicholas was very much disturbed from this situation. He at first wanted to go to Bahrain, then, when saw that there they wanted to change his date of birth, refused, like James Kwalia, After this he spoke with Qatar, but the Country didn't do anything because there was the negotiation regarding Shaheen for OG. So, Nicholas tried to go in Kenyan team starting his preparation only at the end of May, and this was not enough. Personally, I think that the great talent of Nicholas is demonstrated more from the time of last year (27:17 with only two months of training) that from the 26:30 of 2003. You must know that, on the road, at the end of 2002, in Trento, there was a race where Bekele beated Nicholas for 20 cm, running 27:47 (both). And you must also know that the second 13:42 was under very heavy training, because of sure I don't go for any tapering when competitions are not important. Nicholas went for a very tough training (12 x 1000m with the average of 2:44, but the n. 6 and the n. 12 in 2:36, in Davos, with 1:30 recovery) only 3 days before the race. So, don't think that a top athlete has to prepare every race like a big race. Another example is Christopher Koskei, that in 1999 ran 14 competitions of 3000 steeple in the last 41 days before the Final of WCh, where he won. Among these competitions, I chose only 2 meetings (St. Denis and Zurich) for running fast, the other were like workouts, with hard training very close the races.
Regarding the athletes of today, we will go in Doha with Shaheen trying to increase the World Best in 2000 steeple (may be 5:13) on 13th of May. There I put always Jamal, Kwalia, Nicholas and the young Rashed in 3000m, everyone at 75% of the best shape. But, in any case, the season is very long, and the type of training that we use at the moment is general, for increasing strength endurance and general resistance.
I have seen little discussion of Helsinki, the world championships this year. I think, if Shaheen were to partake, the race could be the greatest ever with this possible field:
Men's 5000m:
HICHAM EL GUERROUJ, 3:26.00 1500 WR, 3:43.13 mile WR 12:50.24 5,000, Olympic 5,000m gold medal winner, Olympic (once) and 4 time WC gold 1500m
KENENISA BEKELE, 12:37.35 5,000m WR, 26:20.31 10,000m WR, 2003 bronze medalist in the 5,000, 2004 silver medalist in 5,000m, Olympic and world 10K champion
SILESHI SIHINE, 12:47.04 5,000m, World bronze and Olympic silver 10K, 26:39.69 10,000m, 1 of 3 athletes to ever beat both Bekele and Gebrselassie
ELIUD KIPCHOGE, 12:46.53 5,000m, World 5,000m gold, 7:27.42 3,000m
STEPHEN CHERONO, 12:48.81 5,000m, 7:53.63 SC WR, World steeple gold,
ABRAHAM CHEBII, 12:52.99 5,000m, only non-Ethiopian ever to beat both Bekele and Gebrselassie
GEBREMARIAM or BERHANU
Imagine such a field. It is possible, and it would be unforgottable to see that race. There are 3 men ever under 12:40, and one would be in that race. There are 9 people ever under 12:50, and 4 would be in that race.
I think it is possible if everyone stays healthy.
Renato, encourage Cherono to do the 5K! He has already won the steeple.
ABRAHAM CHEBII
[quote]Renato Canova wrote:
but after we can stop this thread...[quote]Why? it is a great discussion,...
what is the general traing you do? Is it just miles and strides? What workouts used for "strength endurance"?
thanks
Regarding this young guy that seemed to do 26:30 from nowhere....how many years of big training?
All experienced runners know that during the first few years of serious, mature training, big jumps happen. In my mid 20s, my 10k PR went from mid 32s to lo31s. And I trained long and hard for that mid32. And most of us also know that sometimes, on a really great breakthru 10k, we hit 5k mark at our near-best for 5k. These things happen early in a training life. If he was 32 and had 10 years of international racing behind him, I'd be more surprised.
Cheers
GILT
Yes, but is Kemboi actually 19 or 20? I find it hard to believe. A lot of Kenyans, no matter their age, get a birth certificate from the passport agency right before they head off to their first international race that says they are 18, even if they're really 22. Do you believe that Kipchoge is actually 19? I hope not. There is no 18 year old in the world who could beat El Guerrouj at 5K. Komen was supposedly "20" when he ran 7:20. Yeah right. And that Tadesse guy who won World cross in 2004 was "19." No one believed him and there was monstrous protest.
what's the deal? why even keep this thread going if the posts now have nothing to do with the subject. make a new thread!
nk wrote:
There is no 18 year old in the world who could beat El Guerrouj at 5K.
That's a bit of an absolute statement -- I don't know if there are, but I would not go so far as to say that there cannot be.
You have to be a retard to believe that Eluid was a teenager. I mean god damn, the guy looked like he was pushing mid 30's already.
And I'm sure Webb was getting carded when he bought beer...
Yeah, saying that some of the African athletes aren't young/teenagers merely because they look old is a poor argument. Physical maturity varies greatly from individual to individual, and nearly all of the athletes that are good when young are early bloomers. Yes, look at Webb - he looks much older than he is. If we were to base age only on how someone looked, people would say Webb isn't 21 or 22 but 31 or 32. There are definitely some athletes out there that are older than they claim, but that argument has no validity.
You people aren't getting it; Webb has a birth certificate issued by a certified American hospital. He has all that documentation. I have personally read of several Kenyans who were in Kipchoge's classes in high school who said he graduated in 1998. Kenya was a British colony, so even if their age standards for graduation are different, Kipchoge certainly did not graduate when he was 13 years old, which would make him 18 in 2003 and 20 this year. that is garbage, and Renato Canova himself exposed this trash with the governments trying to falsify ages for their own corrupt ends. I also stand by what I said; no CLEAN EIGHTEEN YEAR OLD IN THE WORLD COULD BEAT EL GUERROUJ IN 2003. When he is getting older, he can be beaten. But from 1996-2004, he was unstoppable. Have a look at his losses:
8/3/96: Famous one here. He freaking tripped and fell. He got up, passed Laban Rotich who eventually finished 4th, and, after realizing he wouldn't win, jogged it in and still ran 54 for the last lap AFTER FALLING ON THE GROUND.
On the year, 15-1.
9/13/97: Screwed around in a tactical Grand Prix Mile (the first half was something like 2:08) and got outkicked by a Kenyan. His mistake.
On the year, 17-1
1998- UNDEFEATED, 13-0
1999- UNDEFEATED, 10-0
9/29/00- Of course, everyone knows by now he ran himself into the ground, but still had a phenomenal season, running 3:45 and 3:27. His fault for training poorly, but an understandable loss.
On the year, 9-1
2001- UNDEFEATED, 16-0
2002- UNDEFEATED, 12-0
2003- 13-1 on the year, his only losses at an unfamiliar distance, 5,000.
Surprised by Shaheen's 12:48, eased up in his WC heat in 13:32 for 4th, then made a tactical ERROR in taking the lead way out in the final, letting "the 18 year old" sit on him.
2004- 8-3, losing with an allergy problem in Rome and easing up, losing a good race with Lagat at 3:27, and finishing 3rd in his heat on the way to double gold.
For those keeping score, that's 1996-2004, 9 years (before 1995 he lost a lot more), and, a record of ONE HUNDRED THIRTEEN WINS, SEVEN LOSSES.
113-7, winning percentage of 93.3%, and you think a random 18 year old Kenyan can beat him.
Better rethink that, and give more respect where it is due.
My mistake, I screwed up 2003, where he was 13-3. You get the point; he's still 113-9, and the suggestion at hand is ridiculous.
it is no way disrespect to El G and is in fact respect for the volume of talent in the world.
and as far as birth records...
our point is that you can't judge age on looks
SERIOUSLY, are people really getting into this thread? What the !@#$, over 1800 posts? Am I falling for a joke here?
spikes wrote:
SERIOUSLY, are people really getting into this thread? What the !@#$, over 1800 posts? Am I falling for a joke here?
What the hell is wrong with you? Get a life and cease your pointless verbiage. You, under 7 different names, have continually whined like a little girl about the length of this thread and how long it is and how it's so long and what a long thread it is.
Do you see how unoriginal your point is?
Stop being a pathetic moron, leave the board for a time, and return only when you do not clutter the forum while paradoxically wishing threads were not so long.
If you read the entire thing, we are having a great discussion here, so you need to stop crying about it and get the hell out if you don't like it.
It's such a simple concept, you must be stupid, blind, or both not to be able to read that.
This is a great thread, please continue it. Great posts NK and Trackhead, Antonio, Racer1, and of course Renato, did I Miss anybody? Also Marco Velediaz.
Renato Canova, weren't you going to post some full training of your athletes somewhere? I know your busy with other training of course but do you have a chance for that sometime please? Also please encourage Shaheen to run also 5k in Helsinki World Champs!
Helsinki World Champs Mens 5k Final(possible leaders)
Hicham El Guerrouj
Kenenisa Bekele
Eliud Kipchoge
Saif Saaeed Shaheen
Add to that two more Ethiopians, probably Geb Gebremariam and Dejene Berhanu but possibly other people, I believe Sileshi Sihine will only run the 10k. Add THREE Kenyans because Eliud Kipchoge gets a bye, this means possibly Chebii, Kibowen, and somebody else, Kipketer or Choge maybe? If Shaheen runs with El G, Bekele, Kipchoge, and a few other top racers, the race will be BETTER than in 2003 and 2004. Shaheen is the key, we already know El G, Bekele, and Kipchoge will be running. Let's see some great racing!
Renato Canova, where will Shaheen run a fast 5k this season? Do you think he can break 12:45 this year? Good luck! :)
Could someone who has been following this thread for a while write up a summary of what useful training info has been given? It looks like a great thread, but I don't really have the time to spend going through 1800+ posts with finals coming up.
not enough time wrote:
Could someone who has been following this thread for a while write up a summary of what useful training info has been given? It looks like a great thread, but I don't really have the time to spend going through 1800+ posts with finals coming up.
Most people would slam you for being so lazy, but I will give yoh the very simple answer that if it was possible to summarize 95 pages of information in one paragraph, it would have been done.