50+ Masters Training and Racing Open Forum

lucKY2b - Condolences to you, your wife and family. My mother-in-law died unexpectedly earlier this year, and my wife continues to struggle with the loss. Important to respect the grieving process, and know that it takes time.

M59 -- 5'11" 162 lbs

Open PRs -- 16:04, 2:40:30

M55-59 PRs -- 18:58, 3:07:23

Goals:

1:25:00 half marathon May 2019

3:00:00 marathon Oct 2019

Oct 22-28, 2018

Off

LR -- 16.6 miles @ 7:25/mi

Off (knee)

MLR - 12.2 miles @ 7:05/mi

Off (knee)

Easy - 13.0 miles @ 7:46/mi

Easy - 8.2 miles @ 9:19/mi

WEEK TOTAL: 50.0 MILES

Tuesday Long Run - First mile was 8:27, last mile was 6:34. With two miles to go, I fell hard onto my right knee. I lost a couple training days as a result.

Thursday Medium-Long Run - I was happy with the 7:05/mile average -- close to my current estimated marathon pace.

I may jump into a 5K before the season ends. After that I plan to relax the long runs, keep the medium-long runs as progressions, and reintroduce weekly strides. That is my "base" plan, as I try to get consistent 50+ mpw. Specific HM training to follow.

L2B sorry for your family's loss .

2 hours of running 4 runs 30 minutes each easy(120 to 140 hr) except for a 20 minute tempo at 80 percent mrh 160

18+ hours of easy walking

1 hour of jetty rocks

2 one hour of bike rides easy except for 3x90 rotations all out

22 hour daily fasts feel pretty normal thinking about extending to 46 hours once a week autophagy is pretty exciting stuff

L2B, Prayers for you, your wife, and family on your loss. Running helps to cope doesn’t it?

Emotional running week for me. High School team I coach had 7 boys between 16:10 - 16:55 for 5k XC but NOT good enough to make it out of our District to State. Top 6 boys & girls had lifetime bests in District Champs. What more can you ask? They were better than last year when we did make it to State. Still, I feel I’ve failed them as their coach.

My aerobic tank build to Spokane is off to a good start one week after SR Games Track 1500/800 with a 31:40 8k XC last Saturday, 4mile Tempo @ 6:33pace Thursday, and a “Thirds” 12-Mile progression run today. 1st third relaxing 8:15p, 2nd third 7:20p, final third 7:50p. Friends... just going the distance of 12miles was big for me. Now if only I can remain illness & injury free over the next 6 weeks I stand a chance to do better than Kentucky Club Nats last year. I know y’all know never to bet on such a risky aggressive training plan for us M58+ folks.

May all y’all have a great week of running for a good life.

KP

Congratulations on the Grand Prix title, quite an accomplishment.

Charlie wrote:

L2B sorry for your family's loss .

2 hours of running 4 runs 30 minutes each easy(120 to 140 hr) except for a 20 minute tempo at 80 percent mrh 160

18+ hours of easy walking

1 hour of jetty rocks

2 one hour of bike rides easy except for 3x90 rotations all out

22 hour daily fasts feel pretty normal thinking about extending to 46 hours once a week autophagy is pretty exciting stuff

A question about your fasting Charlie. Have you had any problem with feeling like you are "bonking" with low blood sugar in adjusting to your fasting plan? Although I know that fasting is supposed to improve glucose regulation I have found in going to an 18 hr daily fast that I sometimes seem to get that low blood sugar feeling.

I'm sorry to hear about your mother-in-law, Lucky. For those of us who use running as stress relief, sometimes the grief is too much even to do that. Sending healing thoughts!

My mileage was a bit disappointing this week - 29-30 miles, when I was hoping to get in a few more, but didn't plan well. I took Monday completely off (planned) and did an hour of the strength/core work, Wednesday run was unfortunately cut from 6 to 2.5 due to poor planning, and Saturday's was short as planned.

M - 35 min. aqua jog, plus strength/core

T - 4.5 miles

W- 5 mi, strength/core

Th - 2.5ish (grrrrr), with chiro appointment

F - 6 mi., strength/core

S - 3ish, strength/core (I hour)

S - 8 (!!!) mi.

I am struggling with the practice of NOT doing a lot of aerobic work (I thought about adding aqua running on Saturday) to supplement. I have to realize that I will benefit more from doing the strength work (lunges, myrtl, etc) than more aerobic. I am finding this very difficult. It took a lot to convince myself that my body needed to "rest" between Friday and Sunday's runs since I didn't get the extra recovery day between.

I have been following a vegan meal plan for the last two weeks - which is a change from my vegetarian minus dairy diet - and I actually am starting to notice a difference in my body. But, although I feel leaner than I have in the last 2 months, I checked my weight today and it is at a historic HIGH. (Which makes me glad I didn't check two weeks ago when it was undoubtedly worse). We will see if following this plan, which uses no oil either, works. The big benefit is preparing much of the week's meals on Sundays and that has been helpful.

I think my best plan for xc is to get stronger and not get injured again and try to get leaner, since lord knows, I'm not getting any good or fast training in.

Happy running, everyone.

MG

thanks. I guess it's not that long a story, and now that I've succeeded in supervising big win over the New York Football Giants I have time.

basically, my brother is a former runner with a strong emotional attachment to the Marine Corps Marathon in particular. Partly personal -- our first marathon was MCM 1977, in which all four of us [incl. our two older brothers] finished. Partly the military connection, as he's an Army vet.

these days he tends to run only when on deployment. When he's here [which is most of the time], job and commute and life just crowd out training, but every year he summons the will to run/walk MCM anyhow. Particularly as we get older, lots of family pressure on him to knock it off unless he starts training for it, but.......you can't tell Haaga's what to do it seems.

cheers,

Dave

[quote]amkelley wrote:

dhaaga, I really hope everything holds together for Richmond. I’m also curious about your brother’s “long story”. Perhaps some time.

OGII asked:

Charlie. Have you had any problem with feeling like you are "bonking" with low blood sugar in adjusting to your fasting plan?

A different state of mind but not the dreaded low blood sugar. I feel calm and clear headed more aware of my surrounding with more creative thoughts. Extending from 18 hours felt like a natural progression.

Another positive week in the books. Intensity neutral, but the volume took a modest bump. No significant aches or pains to report. The overnight lows have dropped into the 20s though the leaves are mostly yet to fall. Have modified the running wardrobe to three layers on top and gloves for the first half of most jogs. And I finally returned to the links for the first time in over 5 months. Surprisingly my score was the same as my last round way back when. Hopefully I can get back out there again soon.

Sun: walk w/ the bride

Mon: 56' jog, body wt ex

Tues: golf (18 holes riding, 97)

Wed: 52' jog w/ 1 mi utility pole fartlek (2 on/off), body wt ex

Thu: off

Fri: 61' jog, body wt ex

Sat: off

Condolences to L2B.

Best to most.

Welcome to the plant based lifestyle, MG. I think burning an extra thousand kcals (i.e., running 10 more miles/week) plus avoiding dairy is going to be a huge help in weight adjustment, but give it time. And don't deny yourself the oils if it adds flavor you notice, especially in preparing whole foods -- oil in salad, oil to cook greens, to pops the popcorn. But yeah, i'm starting to realize I'm using it in things like soup and granola and like, why?

I believe that was David Carradine's final tweet....

Well, I ran 18:22 today and I'm just totally deflated. Months of training, sticking to the plan, not overtraining or holding back, choosing a relatively flat (for KC) course, 53-degree start, everything seemingly ideal for a sub-18 or close ... and after half a mile there's one guy in front of me. One. Guy. He's not 30 seconds in front of me, either. He's right there. Right there! And he's pacing me at what I need to be doing, 5:52, to be in position to break 18:14. This week, "5:52 after 2" was my mantra (thank you Dave). When I catch this guy, I think, he will pull me to the finish line, a PR and possibly a win. And I can't catch him. In fact, I fade a little. Afterward we talk. He's 28, a teacher and asst XC coach. He just ran a PR. Like, faster than he ran in high school! "I thought for sure you were going to catch me," he said. "So did I," I tell him. And if I'm honest, this isn't a one-off. My workouts, done at paces set by my 18:14 time, have been harder to do than they should. A September race time of 19:30 (albeit on a warm day) was troubling. It looks like I've reached the apogee, as has everyone on this thread. That point beyond which you only get slower. What was that like for you? Here are two options I'm mulling: (a) Stay the course, quit being a baby. Go find some old guys you can compete with (b) Stop kidding yourself, your fast-twitch fibers moved away in those 35 years you weren't training. Start running 10Ks and halfs. I cannot overlook the amazing life improvements that running has given me. But I have really enjoyed shooting for PRs - and "faster" is a nice tangible goal to shoot for. I think that's what's tempting me about 10K/half ... I'm going to set a PR because I've never run anything longer than 5K.

KP wrote:

Emotional running week for me. High School team I coach had 7 boys between 16:10 - 16:55 for 5k XC but NOT good enough to make it out of our District to State. Top 6 boys & girls had lifetime bests in District Champs. What more can you ask? They were better than last year when we did make it to State. Still, I feel I’ve failed them as their coach.

Totally relate, KP ....

KCgeezer wrote:

Here are two options I'm mulling:

(a) Stay the course, quit being a baby. Go find some old guys you can compete with

(b) Stop kidding yourself, your fast-twitch fibers moved away in those 35 years you weren't training. Start running 10Ks and halfs.

KCgeezer,

I choose (a).

I set PRs at every common distance from 5K to the marathon over the course of about 9 months at age 32-33. Since then it's all been downhill. I'm way too slow too be competitive even in my age group at anything shorter than 5K, and I'm not physically tough enough to run ultramarathons. So I just keep running more and more slowly, and taking some solace in the fact that my peers are also either slowing down or having to quit running altogether. I'm still out there at age 60, and I consider that a victory in itself.

lucKY2b, sorry for your loss. hopefully running and the running community can provide some respite and comfort in the coming days…

congrats to all racers on solid times, especially coyote for killing it in tulsa.

a "good times bad times" week for me (celebrating 50 years of led zeppelin):

last sunday i had a relaxing 12 miler, where i rambled on at sub-7 pace.

monday, unfortunately, while running with my h.s. team, i sprained my ankle. nobody’s fault but mine, as i rolled it on a rock. swelled up pretty bad, and i thought how many more times am i going to have another setback this year?

had to take tuesday off, icing often, and wednesday morning it still felt bad, but in the evening i managed two miles running around my block.

thursday morning i ran another couple of miles on the track, thinking i’m gonna crawl while my h.s. athletes were out on their morning run, but i was rewarded with a 90 second last lap that didn’t feel terrible, so i pronounced myself ready to rock & roll again. later in the day, thinking we’re gonna groove, i planned a 3 mile tempo instead of my usual 4, thinking my ankle might still bother me (it’s still pretty swollen), but i was able to bring it on home the 4th mile at 5:45 pace.

friday i ran a couple of short runs, 3.5 miles with my h.s. kids, then 4.5 miles from a motorcycle dealer where i dropped of my bike of for an oil and much needed tire change, both front and back with years of wearing and tearing on them.

saturday, i previewed our league finals (contested this tuesday) course with the team, doing 5x800/2x400 over the 3 mile course. running with a pack of teenage boys on a semi-narrow bike path through a park challenged me to not be trampled under foot since i was trying to pace our mid-pack kids through 3 minute 800s. by the 4th and 5th one i got restless and pushed it up with the varsity boys, giving them no quarter with a couple of 2:30s, after which i coached them through the last 400 of the course.

finally today, 10 days after my 51st birthday, i drove down to a local track today and ran a sub-5 mile, slightly faster than my 14 year old self did it in 1982. i think it hurt more today, though--came by 3:45 at 1200 and actually started to doubt, thinking this could be a heartbreaker, but mustered up a 71 second last lap for an unofficial eerily hand-timed 4:56.78. the song remains the same--38 years of sub-5s and still a whole lotta love for running…

until my achilles last stand, carpe crepusculem,

cush

Good job cush.

KCgeezer,

I had sub-18:00 as my goal at age 55, fastestest I ran was an 18:02 track time. That was the fastest M-55 time in 2006. You can see how much faster people have been in recent years. The fastest I ran as a young man was a 13:51 3 mile at age 23, but I ran 14:04 at age 19. So not much improvement in four years. In August I ran 30:39 road time for 5k, yet about nine minutes faster last year at age 67. Throughout all these years I have always felt I could run faster than the season before. I think that is all that really matters. Not sure if this helps, but that is what comes to my mind.

Igy

Ghost of Igloi wrote:

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/27/sunday-review/allie-kieffer-weight-marathons-body.html?action=click&module=Opinion&pgtype=Homepage

OK, whatever. Good article that supports it is important to train hard and believe in yourself more than probably any other factors. Of course one should temper variables that lack scientific evidence or add fractions to the equation.

KCgeezer wrote:

Well, I ran 18:22 today and I'm just totally deflated.

Maybe you need some animal protein in your diet! But, seriously, 18:22 is an excellent time, and, besides, there are a lot of factors that contribute to any given single performance. Faster days are still possible.

I forget your age -- 56ish? I am about the same age, and my modest goal was only to get under 19 minutes this year. And I still didn't make it. Doesn't keep me from targeting 18:30 next year!

And, nothing wrong with going for PRs at other distances. Best wishes!