She was once a runner

Hey " know your role" thanks for posting all those non-sequitur studies, but you completely missed the point of the post you were responding to. And more importantly, you missed the point of this thread. Aren't there enough title IX bitchfest threads on this board that you had to hijack this one too?

Social norms might have changed but the biological differences in men and women have not. That was the point. Men are stronger and better at sports because of physical differences. There is no denying this. Title IX doesn't change it nor does feminism or evolution of thinking.

fdsfdzsf wrote:

oh ya... wrote:

Something that has not yet been discussed...WHAT TYPE OF PROGRAM HAS THEIR WOMEN RUNNING 85 MPW???? This is tough for Pro women and yet the author says she has been running 85 mpw consistently..definitely cause for suspicion if you ask me

85 mpw is not tough for pro women, let alone serious collegiate women. This is maybe a bit over 90 mins a day of running at most.

While 85 mpw is certainly not unheard of, most of the girls running that in college are either all-americans or overtraining. Plenty of female cross-country AA's have achieved it on 60 mpw, and plenty have achieved it on 85 mpw. Different people train differently.

Clifford Diffley wrote:

Nice writeup, Tyler. also, Football is great for revenue, unlike Track.

You still running?

I'd rather not hijack this thread with a discussion of me, shoot me a message on facebook whoever you are.

Are you kidding me? You truly have no idea what you are talking about and you should probably just keep your mouth shut. Don't comment on things that you have no first hand experience in. You may have ran for a mens team (and I know that our mens team had their fair share of runners with eating problems), but you have no idea what it is like to be on a very competitive womens team at a school where academics are taken seriously. You get a bunch of highly motivated and driven women together who are essentially competing for 7 spots on a team and you will have problems. It has nothing to do with socioeconomic status or race and everything to do with being competitive and having the wrong influence (shitty coach with priorities in the wrong places) to bring out the worst in people. That's all I really have to say about this.

The main character is clearly depressed, which puts a gray cast over everything she experiences. A lone tree caught fire across the street, and she's the only to assume (hope?) her life was in peril. As another poster mentioned, she also fantasized about the ease of drowning while swimming. It is a fascinating look into the life of one dealing with depression. The D1 runners life is a great backdrop for this story.

what is your point? we get it, academics/athletics is tough---how is that the coaches problem? he is supposed to produce a winning team ,not be a therapist.... the employer analogy is spot on----and let's say the guys have eating issues, where are all the men complaining the coach is not being sympathetic enough?

Yes, she is depressed but I see it as a reaction to the situation she is in. When you put someone in a position where there is no where to turn, it will lead to depression. She can't go to her parents they are not supportive. She can't go to her coach, she already tried that and it backfired. She can't lean on her team mates they have their own problems and the coach has created an situation where they are competing against each other and not to win as a team. She can't quit there is no money to go to another school and no support from her family to find somewhere else for her to go. So where does she turn what does she do, she gives up hope and depression follows.

asdpl wrote:The main character is clearly depressed, which puts a gray cast over everything she experiences. A lone tree caught fire across the street, and she's the only to assume (hope?) her life was in peril. As another poster mentioned, she also fantasized about the ease of drowning while swimming. It is a fascinating look into the life of one dealing with depression. The D1 runners life is a great backdrop for this story.

Agreed. Not surprisingly, depression and eating disorders go hand-in-hand.

It seems to me the real villain in all of this is the father. We can argue about how much of a coach's duty is making sure girls are healthy vs making sure they perform well, but I think we can all agree that the father's lack of caring and outright antagonism are inexcusable under any circumstances.

fiendster wrote:

So since women aren't as good at running as men (largely due to something called testosterone) .

its not that they aren't as good, they are just as good, but not as fast

Baller, without naming the school (unless you want to) could you at least name the conference you competed in.

Kinda curious. Thanks.

answer?? wrote:

what is your point? we get it, academics/athletics is tough---how is that the coaches problem? he is supposed to produce a winning team ,not be a therapist.... the employer analogy is spot on----and let's say the guys have eating issues, where are all the men complaining the coach is not being sympathetic enough?

I don't know where you guys work but my employer gives a crap about me and my well being as they hope to keep me in the long run- not use me up and toss me to the side in a few years to hire someone else. This is what this coach is doing..use up every drop of talent, drive, competitiveness, etc. in each girl for 4 years and then replace them. Who cares if they have osteoporosis when they are 26, can't have children, are basically effected for life because of an eating disorder. I'm not saying that the fault lies solely on the coach here but a coach can be a major driving force OR a major help in this situation. They can either pit teammates against each other, creating competitiveness and a "whatever it takes" kind of attitude to create a successful team (at the expense of what happens during/after college) or they could encourage a healthy perspective, teamwork, looking out for each other, smart training, and probably attain similar results. To be successful you do not need to be cut throat and risk peoples sanity and health.

As for the mens team complaining about the coach being sympathetic, they did not. They complained about being tired, injured, and racing poorly. All side effects of....

answer?? wrote:

what is your point? we get it, academics/athletics is tough---how is that the coaches problem? he is supposed to produce a winning team ,not be a therapist.... the employer analogy is spot on----and let's say the guys have eating issues, where are all the men complaining the coach is not being sympathetic enough?

Again, in case you missed it the first 50 times, the coach does not need to be a therapist, but should be supportive. That might mean finding outside help.

As for the men, as I've already said, people cope differently. Why do you think there are so many assholes on letsrun? I've seen men kicked off a team because of "attitude problems" (aka butting heads with the coach). I've seen men show up for morning practice reeking of alcohol (and not just on the weekends). I am not judging anyone. I'm just pointing out that there can be problems throughout a negative team environment. Maybe we don't see it as much in men because most of the ways they act out is seen as acceptable. Plus if they realize they are in a bad situation, I think men are more likely to do something about it, such as transfer. I think women tend to be people-pleasers, so we turn our emotions inward.

cause and effect wrote:So where does she turn what does she do, she gives up hope and depression follows.

Definitely possible, but her first blog entry seems to indicate the presence of depression before the shit hit the fan, and during her best training - "Yet I couldn’t help but feel the weight of a dense mushroom cloud lurking behind the silver lining I was desperately trying to paint for myself."

In my own experience, most of my negative reactions & feelings of hopelessness, being trapped etc. were more a result of the depression rather than the cause. It is, however, a chicken-and-the-egg sort of vicious cycle; besides, everyone's different. All I really know is that I'm hooked on the blog and can't wait for the next entry!

So where does the writer go? For some reason, my first thought was Duke.

ok--so men have alcohol problems-they get tossed off team--nobody talks about the coach causing a toxic atmosphere which drove the guy to drink----if the women's team has eating issues, coach must do something and/or share in the blame?

and to the coach, you are a 4 yr employee--it as simple as that-------i think most women are coddled as high school athletes, where success is easier, and all of a sudden they get thrown in a system where they are "getting paid" amd production deficiencies are met with criticism, and they cannot handle......guys have same issues, and if they booze/ get fat, nobody complains when the coach says hit the road------if female reacts by trying to goose performance/cope via eating issues, the coach shares in the blame? you are 18-23 yrs old. deal with it--the guys do------transfer, quit, or figure it out-------nobody is arguing that the mens team doesn't have members who may partake in destructive coping behaviors, but no one expects Randy Thomas to arrange for them a trip to alcohol rehab

That's only because "Duke" rhymes with "bulimia"

ytfjhd wrote:

So where does the writer go? For some reason, my first thought was Duke.

You are totally off point. The main driver in the womens eating issues are pressure from the coach to lose weight coupled with their desire to perform well in return for the scholarship they recieved, they feel indebted to the program! He's not pressuring the mens team to drink alchohol. The coach is fueling the anxiety and insecurites regarding weight. Didn't you read about the coach's comment "she's 10lbs away from all-american". You can't compare alcoholism and eating disorders. They think they need to lose weight to help the team/make the team/please the coach. It's pretty clear.

TK1451 wrote:

It seems to me the real villain in all of this is the father. We can argue about how much of a coach's duty is making sure girls are healthy vs making sure they perform well, but I think we can all agree that the father's lack of caring and outright antagonism are inexcusable under any circumstances.

Maybe the writer picked the school based on the coach being like her father. At some point she realizes that neither of them care what happens to her.

I know people in their 60's who are still living their lives based on their dad's desires, not their own, and who are miserable because of that. They are afraid to live their own lives, even when their dad passed a long time ago.

Good for the writer, for facing these issues already.