Opinions on these college teams?

You are all over the board with those schools. Grinnell and Lawrence (though Lawrence isn't as good as Grinnell I would say) are not at all the same academically as Carthage, UIC, Depauw, or Depaul. I might put Grinnell in its own category academically out of these schools, actually.

Are you thinking of academics first? Money? Running?

I'm only familiar with Lawrence and Grinnell as far as running goes. Grinnell has a good program-qualified a mens team for xc this last year, and the coach is nice. The Lawrence coach changed since I looked there, but their program is kinda....not very good.

Oops, my fault on not clarifying. I am not looking for academic opinions or gossip, and I know these schools are very seperated on the academic and other levels.

I simply want to know any info, personal gossip or opinions on the running programs at the schools that any posters may have knowledge about; coaches, team success, development of runners, conferences, etc. That kind of stuff. Sorry for not being clear.

I'm definitely keeping academics in mind, but solely looking for running related info here.

Midwest Native wrote:The Lawrence coach changed since I looked there, but their program is kinda....not very good.

Mens program is getting better, jumped from 31st at regionals to 16th in a year and return at least 6 maybe all of their top 7. May be competitive with Grinnell in a year or two if they continue to get the recruits (8 freshmen guys this year, including 3 in top 7 and one who was 7th at conference). Track team isn't as good but that is mostly because all of the points scored come from distance events. Academically very good, but like Midwest Native said probably not as good as Grinnell. If you have interest in music though you will love it there because of the Conservatory. Campus is nice, although it gets a little ugly in winter (ie today). Appleton is nice as well, and in a larger metro area than Grinnell if that is something you are looking for.

LU: I meant no offense against Lawrence's team or against the school--I almost went there, actually.

Good to hear that their team is on the up and up.

To back up what LU said, yes their conservatory is very good and one of the few places you could get that musical education at a small (very good) liberal arts school.

Go someplace warm and sunny for undergrad. Or at least consider it. Just a thought.

don't go to depaul or loyola chicago or any of the others in that city if you want to run well. Chicago is a terrible place to train, doubly so in the winter, which in Chicago is loooong.

Since you're looking in the Illinois area, have you considered the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign club team? We are easily as competitive as most of the teams on your list.

As it happens, I got my undergraduate degree at Grinnell and I would give a similar positive review of Coach Freeman that you've gotten from everyone else.

Bill Simmons wrote:

Go someplace warm and sunny for undergrad. Or at least consider it. Just a thought.

That is awesome. I have read that from The Sports Guy many times.

OP, I would say you aren't making it onto Butler's team with those times. They've qualified numerous teams to NCAA DI XC nationals over the past 10-15 years.

Midwest Native wrote:

LU: I meant no offense against Lawrence's team or against the school--I almost went there, actually.

Good to hear that their team is on the up and up.

None taken.

About the coach (Jason Fast): Pretty young guy (under 30 I believe) and very enthusiastic. In the past year he has organized the schools first home meet in over 20 years, moved the team from 6th to 2nd in conference and drawn in many good recruits for visits (guys in the 1:56 range in the 800 to guys running 9:30s for the 3200). Has a good sense of humor, but still takes running seriously and expects 100% commitment to the team (after academics and family life of course).

LU: From a Wisconsin native, I'm pleased to hear it, always good to see a home team doing well. I'll be following the team more closely.

rrrffsdsdd wrote:

don't go to depaul or loyola chicago or any of the others in that city if you want to run well. Chicago is a terrible place to train, doubly so in the winter, which in Chicago is loooong.

No, actually it is not. The runneres at UIC, Loyola, UChicago (not on the list) all have their own training routes. There is the Lakefront and many other routes throughout the suburbs that are unique to each school and perfectly fine. Sure there are limited trails, but no way in hell does it justify not improving at all. UChicago has had 2 DIII NCAA National Champions in track W5k,10k and M10k just in the last decade.

And if you are unwilling to train through a midwest winter this is a sign of your own lack of dedication.

i am looking at some illinois colleges too.

how are the coaches at uic, depaul, loyola?

Since no one has replied to about this I thought I would.

I went to Loyola and know that they are actually going to be hiring a new coach this summer. They have a young team of talent and unlike those that have posted about Chicago being a tough place to train, I disagree. I ran some pretty good times while at Loyola and they now have a state of the art athletic facility (totally jealous of this!) to go along with some storied history. As one of a handful of DI schools, we are the only to have reached NCAAs back in 2005.

UIC, they are in the Horizon League with Loyola. Jim Knadel (sp?) is a very good man and has some young talent too. Depending on what you want to study, in my opinion, Loyola has the best school of the 3.

Depaul also has a few good individuals, but I have never heard good things about their coach, but I personally have never met the man myself, just heard stories from former runners.

Hope that helps