Thinking of switching from the kayano to the DS trainers. Advice pls.

Theya re two totally different shoes. The DS trainer is lightweight stability shoe for doing workouts or even used as a racing flat. The Kayano is a top of the line stability shoe with a ton of cushioning. Unless you are very light or run most of your miles on a soft surface, I wouldn't recommend the ds trainer for daily use. It is a great shoe and has its place but not as an everyday trainer for the average runner.

If you like Asics look at the 2140 and 1140 to see if they feel lighter.

So they are meant for different feet type??? So DS trainers being the lighter type, offers less support = more susceptible to injury? Is there what you're saying?

Ps. Im more of a 5k/10k runner

not necessarily less support but definitely less cushioning. If you try both on in the store, you will notice what I'm talking about. What is your height/weight. THe ds trainer would be for a person that is fairly light if they hope to use it daily. If you are planning to run in this 3 days a week, then it would be fine. I wouldn't do any runs longer than about 7 miles in it though (personally).

Think of the Kayano as the max you can get in cushioning and stability. If you are an over pronator and want good soft cushioning with max stability then the Kayano is an excellent choice. The DS trainer is the cousin of the Kayano. Yes it has some stability but not as much as the Kayano. That is why it probably would not make a very good everyday training shoe if you are used to the Kayano. The DS trainer is lighter and less stable than the Kayano. Unless you don't need all the stability that the Kayano has to offer, I would not do a 100% switch from the Kayano to the DS Trainer. My suggestion would be to stick with what has worked and use the DS trainer as a second shoe for speed/tempo runs and perhaps races unless you are already using a flat. Hope this helps.

The DS trainer has significantly less support than the DS trainer, no 2 ways about it. Put an over pronator in both shoes and watch them run on a flat surface. Then tell me which of the two shoes does a better job at keeping them neutral.

The solution to this is easy. Pick up a pair of DS trainers and work them into a rotation with your Kayanos. Start off by just using them on your speed days. Slowly switch more runs over to them. You'll get a sense if you can run in them and stay healthy.

I have flat feet, overpronate, and have trained in both. I greatly prefer the DS trainer and have trained it for about a year with no significant injuries.

Im 5 foot 6, 128 pounds. Thanks for all the advice people. I guess the best solution really is to own 2 pairs and use the DS for speedwork and races. Just one more thing I would like to know? The higher arch in Kayano, does it mean it suits flat-footed runners more than the ds does?

There are exceptions to the rule. My point was that he was wanting to switch from something very stable to something less stable. There are runners who need stabiltiy shoes yet the cushion models work for them and vice versa.

Okay hold on, why not just get another pair of Kayanos? If it works, why should you change?

The high arch is suited with people with higher arches. It doesn't matter as much if you are flat-footed. What matters is if you pronate (roll in) or not. The Kayano is a top of the line stability shoe. If you pronate, it can help you run straight, but any stability shoe is a crutch for weak feet. You can so a search for "minimalism" to read more on that. The DS is a light-weight trainer with a bit of support, but definitely less than the Kayano. It's almost a neutral shoe. My suggestion: Start with switching between the Kayano for regular/easy/long runs and the DS for workouts. Gradually, and I do mean gradually, build up time spent in the DS until you only wear that shoe. Be aware that the transition takes time, so don't panic if at first you have calf soreness, etc.

I see, so u recommend in the long run to just stick to one pair the DS, rather than rotate between the kayano and DS? ( meaning using the kayano for long runs, DS for speedwork and races)

Everyone is different, so you need to do what is best for you. Some people have no problems with supportive trainers and they should stick with them if that's the case. However, you said the Kayanos weren't working and wanted to switch. So try rotating them for a while. If that works, stick with the rotation. If you like the way the DS feels in workouts (more flexible, lightweight, etc.) then gradually increase the mileage with those until you don't need the Kayanos.

(note: I tend to run in minimalist shoes, and at times have used racers for all mileage with no adverse effects)

I don't think "minimalism" is a great solution for most runners. There are certainly advantages (less cushion = more impact response from the ground, forcing your feet to adapt to a proper strike). But you cannot strengthen your feet to fix overpronation. Quite simply, overpronation stems from the ligaments and bone structure in your feet. This is something you are born with, or end up with due to wear or injury. No amount of strength can fix ligament and bone structure. You can compensate a little with the right exercises, but you will end up using tendons/muscles to do the work of ligaments. This is usually not a good solution.

If you want to try "minimalism", read up and do your own research. Read both sides of the argument, as letsrun often posts a very biased view.

PS: The DS-Trainer is an awesome feeling shoe. Can't hurt to get a pair and try them and see how they work. It would be a bit of a shock to the system to jump all the way to the DS-Trainer from the Kayano... perhaps your next shoe should be the 2140, then get the DS-Trainer the next time. Or get the DS-Trainers and wear them every other day. Everyone will react differently to new shoes, listen to your body, it knows better than posters here.

Quack is right, as are most of you. if you've been in the kayano, switching straight to the DS trainer might cause more harm than good. That being said, if you've found success with the kayano, why move down to the DS anyway? The 2140 series would be a good starting point for your transition to the DS trainer, but again, remember that it will have less cushioning than the Kayano.

Here is a website where you can purchase 2140s and kayano's for rather low cost.

Let us all know what you decide shoe wise.

http://www.runningcompanyshoes.com/AsicsKayano.html

or

http://www.runningcompanyshoes.com/Asics2140.html

Hey man, i did get a pair of DS to try it out. after my first easy 10k run in it, i had sore calves and quads the next day. Other than that, im feeling good in them. They don't feel as light as I thought they would be( does this mean it has more cushioning compared to previous models of the DS?) Im still using the kayano for long runs ( 10 miles and above) but I think i'll slowly switch over to the DS for long runs eventually. The soles in my kayanos(2 years old) are almost bare anyway.

Also I seem to clock faster times in intervals with the DS. Which is pretty pleasant.

If you're running more than a few miles a week, you should definitely not keep your shoes for two years. 400-600 miles is what most people normally get. I really would just stop using them altogether, you're just asking for problems. Especially transitioning to a much more minimal shoe.

The DS trainers are lighter in many respects. Lighter stability, lighter cushion, lighter weight. The sore calves and quads are because they had to do a lot more work than they're used to.

In my experience, the new DS trainers are not any more cushioned that previous models of the DS trainer (maybe even slightly less so). Your perception of how light they are/aren't is just that- your perception, not necessarily what the shoe actually is.

Either way, I hope you enjoy them, they're really a very nice shoe. Just be careful not to try to do too much too fast.

You're right. Im definitely asking for trouble by using that old pair. I guess my body will slowly adapt to the DS, hopefully. Thanks for the good advice man.