Atlantic Region XC 2008

I heard Stenuf was racing cross again. Has he run yet? Is he hurt?

Wow, bold wrote:

I like the NYU prediction. They'll can make it close with Cortland.

Ya, right...

How is this a bold prediction? It's just bandwagoning on the times they ran on a questionable 8k course. Yes, they did beat some legit teams and are stronger than people gave them credit for. They still will not touch Cortland or blow Geneseo away, IMO.

Predicting any team other than Cortland, NYU, Suny G, SLU and TCNJ to finish in the top 5 is a long shot. Suny P has a good team, but I don't think they can hang with these top five. As for predicting them to finish infront of SLU...do you look at results? Like someone recently posted, beating teams head-to-head is what matters. They've lost to SLU on their home course, and got beaten handily at pre-regionals. I like the team, Heymann is a beast, but I don't think they get into the top 5 this year. If they have a shot at making a run at any of those teams I think it has to be TCNJ. They are built more similarly with good front runners and a stream of solid runners after that. I still don't see it happening.

Tom Williams looks great this season. I think his running deserves a little attention. He was ahead of Suny G's first man at U of R, impressive.

SLU makes it to nationals this year as long as they get top 4 at regionals and don't loose to anyone stupid at Saratoga this weekend (they lost to an unranked Keene last year who went on to finish 7th at regionals).

there are so many flaws in your logic its borderline absurd...ok to start with thanks for letting me know this isn't track I honestly thought it was oops...that head to head battle you speak of you fail to mention that Cortland didn't run their full squad...Brittney Brunetto is not Cortlands 2 either...lets see what else...ah Cortland goes out and runs very fast on some fast courses while geneseo runs ok on some average courses and you say it "looks" like they ran a controlled effort...how do you know they did?...or that cortland didn't run controlled...you dont...all we have to show us who is at the top of the region are peformances not speculation as to who ran harder or easier...you think in order for a team to be ranked in front of another they have to beat the other team...the obvious problem there is that not all teams race each other throughout the season...finally I do have a database and I do take into consideration the course and past results as well as weather to consider the performance of each individual...that being said I'd like to see your rankings...if you can be a critic of others surely you are smart enough to put out better rankings that everyone else

guys

Cortland

NYU

Geneseo

SLU

TCNJ

Plattsburgh

Ithaca

Fredonia

Rocha cha

Mount Saint Vincent

girls

Cortland

Geneseo

SLU

TCNJ

Ithaca

Plattsburgh

Brockport

Rocha cha

Hamilton

RIT

So... Saratoga this weekend. Who's in? Who will win? Kosgei course record? Big surprises?

why not be serious wrote:

MY REGIONAL PREDICTIONS:

MEN

Cortland- 22

NYU- 77

Geneseo- 135

I have scores just to show how it won't even be close between NYU and Geneseo

Plattsburgh

SLU- will fall short of NCAA's again

Ithaca

TCNJ

Rochester

Fredonia

RPI

More predictions as good as yours:

Cortland- 14

NYU- 32

Geneseo- 277

Plattsburgh- will have more visible ribs than their girls team

Fredonia- will beat out SLU for the last nationals berth

SLU- will send their shot put girl as an individual for the men

Now I'm as smart as you are

You're right Brunetto is not Cortland's 2nd girl...

53 12 Andi Palen, So*, Cortland State 21:52

82 29 Brittany Brunetto, Sr*, Cortland State 22:30

94 22 Kate Ramsbothm, Jr*, Cortland State 22:51

134 41 Erin McGrath, Sr*, Cortland State 23:34

136 32 Alyson Dalton, Fr*, Cortland State 23:36

151 37 Jess Stanton, So*, Cortland State 23:51

152 38 Caitlin Sullivan, So*, Cortland State 23:51

and in other races this season she is a few seconds behind their 2nd. My bad.

You're right, not all teams race against each other in a season...except these two did. When they did compete Cortland did not have Hollborn (who seems to be rather injury prone and not as good as last year). If Hollborn was in 2008 Track form then I would give Cortland the nod, but she's not even top 5 material right now.

If you do take into consideration the course and the weather you would notice that Geneseo is better. Cortland got beat this weekend by Lasalle, Lasalle lost to ITHACA at Lehigh.

Either way, neither team is a top 10 team in the nation, they don't have a front runner and their packs are not that great.

Geneseo

Cortland

SLU (can upset 1st and 2nd if their 4th and 5th continue to improve, and if that course was legit this weekend at Oberlin then they are the best)

TCNJ

Ithaca

Plattsburgh

Brockport

Rochester

Hamilton

Vassar

What does everyone see in the Plattsburgh men? There number 2 man is out for the season now, it also seems they aren't getting any better, they ran great at the beginning and have gotten no better since.

The Geneseo men look to be fading too, or at least not getting any better.

I don't know how anyone can say NYU will blow away Geneseo after Geneseo's race at the U of R, 4 guys under 26:00 (with Chichester and Dolan well under) and 5, 6 and 7 at 26:00, 26:01, and 26:02 on a relatively slow course. All of this without Lee Berube, who was their #1 2 weeks ago. Compare their times with the Geneseo Invite, which is a much, much faster course, and you'll see they improved quite a bit.

"You're right Brunetto is not Cortland's 2nd girl...

53 12 Andi Palen, So*, Cortland State 21:52

82 29 Brittany Brunetto, Sr*, Cortland State 22:30

94 22 Kate Ramsbothm, Jr*, Cortland State 22:51

134 41 Erin McGrath, Sr*, Cortland State 23:34

136 32 Alyson Dalton, Fr*, Cortland State 23:36

151 37 Jess Stanton, So*, Cortland State 23:51

152 38 Caitlin Sullivan, So*, Cortland State 23:51

and in other races this season she is a few seconds behind their 2nd. My bad."

its ok we all make mistakes you just seem to make them when they are convienent for your argument...yes these two competed against each other. (Cortland didn't race their entire team) I think we've been over this before

"Cortland got beat this weekend by Lasalle, Lasalle lost to ITHACA at Lehigh."

Do I really have to explain how retarded this is or can you figure it out?

I'm not much of a fan for NYU but its tough to see Geneseo hanging with this team. Even if the Berubes revert back to thier high school fitness levels.

1 Jesse S Schneider, Sr 24:43

5 Zach Maher, Jr 24:56

10 Calvin Lee, Jr 25:06

14 Matt Turlip, So 25:13

17 Mark Hess, Jr 25:17

I have to admit your top 10 is pretty solid. Except Geneseo/Cortland but thats so tight it can go either way.

The U of R course was in no way slow, the ground was rock solid and the rain that fell did not affect the course at all. Also on the course are multiple possibilities to run on pavement which, unlike Geneseo, helps to make for a faster course. Please have some information on a course before you make blind comments about performances.

This is what I see wrote:

What does everyone see in the Plattsburgh men? There number 2 man is out for the season now, it also seems they aren't getting any better, they ran great at the beginning and have gotten no better since.

The Geneseo men look to be fading too, or at least not getting any better.

I see Heymann taking top 5, and their 2-6 (maybe 7) going south of 26:00 at SLU in November. And I don't believe that his injury is quite that serious; so unless you have Lynch on speed dial I would reserve judgement until SUNYAC's.

That said, I think they still have only an outside shot at Nationals.

1)Cortland - #1 lock

2/3)NYU/SUNYG - order doesn't matter, they're both going

4)SLU - too much depth for 5-6 to match, not enough to catch 2-3

5/6)SUNYP/TCNJ - TCNJ is the only darkhorse left. When will we see them race? Platt, to the best of my knowledge, has not raced an 8k with the entire top 7. If TCNJ has a great race, that might spell trouble for the Wolfpack. But, you never know, and that's why they run the race.

7/8/9)Ithaca/Fredonia/UofR - probably in that order

ghostofblake wrote:

I'm not much of a fan for NYU but its tough to see Geneseo hanging with this team. Even if the Berubes revert back to thier high school fitness levels.

1 Jesse S Schneider, Sr 24:43

5 Zach Maher, Jr 24:56

10 Calvin Lee, Jr 25:06

14 Matt Turlip, So 25:13

17 Mark Hess, Jr 25:17

When you look at the times for the 2 teams who were at Pre-Regionals and Oberlin(Brockport and SLU), its apparent that the course at Oberlin runs at least 30-40 seconds faster than the regional course at SLU, which is by no means a slow course.

XC times are a subjective measure IMO, and looking at how they compare to other runners/teams is much more important.

Redd wrote:

The U of R course was in no way slow, the ground was rock solid and the rain that fell did not affect the course at all. Also on the course are multiple possibilities to run on pavement which, unlike Geneseo, helps to make for a faster course. Please have some information on a course before you make blind comments about performances

Geneseo's course is as flat as a pancake, with short grass and a long stretch of hardpacked dirt trail where about a mile of running is done. U of R has numerous rolling hills (which you run twice), a lot of side hill running, and no real hardpack to speak of. There is about 250 - 300m a pavement spread out over the course which doesn't make too much of a difference, especially when you consider a lot of the pavement is going uphill. Geneseo is much faster. Next time, please have some real information instead of general, irrelevant facts before you try to discredit someone else.

Geneseo's course is as flat as a pancake, with short grass and a long stretch of hardpacked dirt trail where about a mile of running is done. U of R has numerous rolling hills (which you run twice), a lot of side hill running, and no real hardpack to speak of. There is about 250 - 300m a pavement spread out over the course which doesn't make too much of a difference, especially when you consider a lot of the pavement is going uphill. Geneseo is much faster. Next time, please have some real information instead of general, irrelevant facts before you try to discredit someone else.[/quote]

You're either a freshman in this region or retarded. I've seen 6/7 years of racing on those courses and the Geneseo course has been run for championship races each season and has not given up fast times very easily to some great competition that has run there. Flat as a pancake? the entire road stretch is uphill. The UofR course is run where the Mcquaid invite is held in Genesee Valley Park and that is flat as a pancake. Why don't you look back and compare the two courses over the years - Geneseo's course does not run faster than UofR.

Yeah I agree XC times are definitley subjective. However even if you add your 30 seconds to those NYU times do you see SUNY G beating that?

25:13

25:26

25:36

25:43

25:47

Plus you have to take into account how NYU ran at Van Cortlandt. Which is a fairly tough course. Anyway thats why this is fun. People hash out different ideas and debates. If I were a betting man I'd take NYU over SUNY G come regionals.