| Informer |
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Actually, you need to get your facts strait. If a college b-ball player signs with an agent, they can NOT go back to the NCAA and play. They can declare for the draft and then still go back, but if they hire an agent they are no longer eligible for collegiate play. So you just shot yourself in the foot, even if he hadn't signed with Reebok, he had an agent and was therefore ineligible. |
| Your Best Buddy |
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Thanks Ricky Booby... I knew you would always be there for me. Sorry I slept with and married your wife. Cal PS By the way, how the hell do you get this freakin hot tub to turn on! I'm freezing my bristol nuts off! PPS The cactus is fine and so are the children (three, right? and what's the black one's name?) |
| VICedumacation |
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Uh, go read a couple posts above yours. |
| coldblooded |
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who cares, its NAIA.............. B-league |
| Tim Goldsack |
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Actually baseball player in college will agree with an agent to work with them then go back to school. Jason Varitek had an agent his junior year in college when he was drafted in the first round. He and his agent did not like the offer so he went back to college. It happens all the time in baseball. Which is what Ricky meant by b-ball. |
| Informer |
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Well, maybe it is legal in baseball, but in track it is not. You are missing the point. He had done things that caused him to forfeit his eligibility and Simmons and VI were still going to run him at the National meet. |
| In-foam-er |
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Simmons turned in his own athlete - Cheromi! Don't give me this cheating bullshit you ill-prepared coach. Just beacuase you can't get your runners to ever run faster than they did as juniors in high school doesn't mean a successful coach is cheating. That guy is beyond reproach. He knows NAIA rules better than the NAIA and you, you sorry excuse for a paycheck, know it. Hater, as the kids say, is what you are. Kudos to a guy who puts his athletes before himself. You are a small minded anonymous man (or woman). You chose. |
| The Duke |
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My hat is off to Coach Simmons for thinking of his athletes first if he did'nt he would still have a job, but this should be an example to us all and at the same time let everyone who thought other wise understand who he really cared about..."His Athletes" ~Corey Duquette |
| u moron |
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You can't be a college graduate because I don't see how you should have ever graduated from high school. |
| Rulebook |
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NAIA rulebook 2006-2007, Article VII, Section D "Acts that result in loss of amateur standing": "6. Entering into an agreement of any kind to compete in professional athletics, with either a professional sports organization or with any individual or group of individuals authorized to represent the athlete with a professional sports organization." |
| ATLs Finest |
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I ran in the NAIA in the mid-90s. What I find interesting is why NAIA track powers go down in flames every 4-5 years. Lubbock Christian scratched its program in the late 90s. Life College almost went bankrupt and shut down its program in the early 2000s/late 90s despite a $1 mm+ training facility and track. Now VIC. Maybe it is just the type of institutions that are in the NAIA or something.... As for Simmons, I have seen him do good things at Mobile and other programs. But I think anyone who hops around the NAIA too long without moving up into "the big leagues" must be hiding from something -- either rule breaking, needing athletes that would not get into NCAA schools or something. Why else wouldn't he be coaching at a DI, DII or DIII school if not? BTW, I do feel for the athletes in this situation and think they are totally screwed, but probably not much they can do about it at this point. Brian |
| Wait..... |
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Scott never went NCAA because he didn't want to leave his athletes. The only reason he left Minot was because his wife never moved to North Dakota. She basiclly told him he was going to move to somewhere warm where she could live or they were not going to be an item anymore. So, Scott looked for a place with good trails with warmer weather. He found VIC who promised him the world. Scott has done nothing wrong here. The VIC situation has warn him out. Look for him to try and start a post-collegiate group because he is sick of the politics in college athletics. Hopefully he will miss coaching college after 2008 and comeback. |
| distanceking79 |
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paying out of his own pocket for guys to go compete is illegal - especially if they're not competing for the college team (unless they never plan too). That is part of the package deal of redshirting - you have to pay for yourself to do everything. And as pointed out above the agent deal with cabada- you were wrong. And name one guy who's gotten slower under simmons - elkana. anyways... my point isn't to diminish his ability to make guys faster (though he is proponent of very high mileage, and as such he's burnt out quite a few guys that you've never heard of - because they burnt out). It's that simmons is a selfish scammer. Or at least he was when i knew him, and when other people i've talked to knew him. He says he is there for his athletes, he tells you that you're your own best coach, he knows what he talking about and his philosophy is almost perfect. I mean look at the job he did and of making all of you guys believe he's this perfect man. But he's not. When the going gets tough, scott does what's best for him. in this case he knew he was leaving vi anyways, so why not go out on a move that makes you look like a hero - "oh he promoted the site to get his athletes funding against the evil schools orders"... that'll be a great chapter in his next book i am sure. |
| No Backbone |
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You know even despite not being professional, being within the rules of the NAIA and clearing everything through the NAIA they collapsed to the pressure of other coaches. Talk about not having a backbone in the NAIA they wouldn't even stand up for there own decisions. |
| Waldo |
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Coach S: I know the haters are always going to hate, and I know you are too good of a coach/person to care anyhow. The present runners (as myself), current runners, and even future runners will ALWAYS supoort you and believe in your system. I can't take stabs at VIC or the president, but it gives me a sour feeling what has all taken place.....great runners not being able to run Nationals, that is truely pathetic. Coach S. keep doing what you are doing and this year leading into the Olympic Trials is something that is going to be worth watching, and that in itself will give something for the haters and jealous coaches across the nation something to be envious of. This just gave Cabada more fuel to the "fire" this weekend and I know when the US distance project takes off it will be very successful for a long period of time. Chase that dream Coach because in Minot you always talked about great running trails, successful runners, and good living situations and you have a "passion" many current and future coaches just don't have and there are many runners out there to make that dream come true. I along with the Duquettes, Newells, Wetsits Tighes, Taylors of this group would love to help build it and just flat-out run hard for a great Coach and because we love making your hard work pay off. I will leave this with saying a good coach does NOT win 5 NAIA titles in a row with luck, being a cheat, having lack of desire, it is simply "DESIRE & PASSION" and I'm very thankful to be part of those first 2 titles and being able to not only call you a coach, but a friend and someone I can rely on for advice. Best of luck! "THE WALDO" |
| Waldo |
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I know I made some errors in my last post, but what the hell this is all crap. Carl great post man and I ran the miles, didn't have the most talent, and fought for school pride for the right to represent a NAIA university in a national meet, just like these 18 individuals that deserve it. Your post hit the hammer on the head and yes the whole NAIA outdoor meet in Fresno will suffer like it or not without them. |
| Flogpale Wally |
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FLAGPOLE HAS NO HEART!!!!! 1) I'm not rich. I just don't spend unnecessarily so that one day I will be rich. 2) I already give a decent amount of my money to charitable causes (including my church) each year. Lots of deserving charities out there to give to that I can't afford to give to who would be way ahead of this cause. 3) I just got an e-mail from a lottery in Africa that I've apparently won, so once I receive that money (after I give them my checking account routing number), I will have more money, so perhaps I will donate then. :)[/quote] |
| SunSpots |
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It's funny that the only people really defending Simmons are his current or former athletes and possibly himself. It's a pretty good bet that he has been posting on here too. Simmons is obviously a decent coach as far as a basic understanding of training. His athletes run fast. But I was talking with a coach about this situation today. One of the things that came up was that VIC is in an incredibly weak region. VIC doesn't have to peak mentally or physically for Regionals, which is a huge advantage in terms of training for and racing at Nationals. Not saying this is the entire reason for his success at Nationals, but it is a huge advantage over a lot of teams. The other major issue is the number of his athletes that have not been eligible at any other NAIA school they were being recruited by, but go to VIC and are instantly eligible. He has "signed" a lot of already very talented runners who couldn't go anywhere else. It sure helps your program when you are the only one who can give guys the opportunity to compete. And rumors, which I'm not saying are true, have always been that many of the VIC runners are propped up academically. Based on the posts so many of the VIC runners have put up on this board over the past three years I would say it isn't hard to believe that they may not be eligible at any other school. Some of his success has come with internationals. Not full teams of internationals, but significant enough, especially when combined with the academically questionable talent previously mentioned. I personally know of a situation in which he tried to recruit a signifant runner from another team. There are rumors of other instances of this, although I can only speak to the one. This is an absolute example of lack of character. It is against the rules to recruit another schools athlete, and is a clear example of where he stands ethically. The bottom line is that the evidence strongly suggests that Simmons either flat-out cheats or pushes the line to the limit. In my opinion, he cheats. It has nothing to do with winning to me. I don't have a problem that his teams are good. Personally, I like seeing teams excel as it promotes the sport and forces other teams to raise their own standards to compete. National Championships are great, but if you are playing with a different set of rules than everyone else, especially at the NAIA level, you have some huge advantages. Cheating can make a good coach look great. I don't think he could make it at the NCAA level, especially not at DI. I doubt he is that good of a coach, he would not get away with the same stuff he has at the NAIA level, and he has never developed a women's program. Plus, I don't see anyone who has any knowledge of his character taking a chance on him for the sport of cross country and track. There are basketball and football coaches that some school will take a chance on, but they are "top of the sport" coaches, and they are big money sports. Why would any NCAA school take a chance on a guy who might get their athletic department in trouble? And on top of it a guy who disregarded the rules and procedures of his current (now former) school. And on that last point, maybe his intentions were good and he wanted to help his athletes. Maybe he wanted to stick it to VIC. Maybe he was thinking about himself and his own chance to enjoy more coaching success, something that cannot be done if you don't have a team at nationals. Only Simmons really knows. But while his true intention cannot be discerned, his actions can be. He demonstrated that the rules are not important to him. His own rules are what are important. His desires rule. Someone mentioned that a future potential employer might see him as a renegade. Isn't that exactly what he is? Whether it is the things mentioned in this and other posts, or his last act of going around his own schools administration, the evidence strongly points to someone who doesn't feel a need to follow rules and puts himself or his program (as an extension of himself), first. If the program were legit, I would feel bad for them. If Simmons had a history of being a moral and ethical person, I would feel bad for him. From what I know though, it is really hard to feel bad for VIC or Simmons. |
| there it went. |
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You just described 3 more violations. I would just keep my mouth shut to save face if I were you. |
| wondering |
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Your silence is deafening. That's what I thought. |