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mlbfan24
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/12/2008 1:25AM - in reply to Miss Osage County Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Miss Osage County-

I didn't see your post until after the fact, so I wasn't able to try it out. Thanks for the thought though. I was able to run the race, although I felt like my leg was gonna go on me about a minute into the race, but it never got any worse. In fact, the only thing that felt worse was my absurdly heavy breathing that I'm not used to haha. I surprisingly ran 11:24, which isn't fast, but not too bad I suppose for being 15 lbs heavier. I definitely didn't feel normal though, which is unfortunate. I may attempt a comeback with running at some point in the future, but not right now. I'm interested to see what a long term layoff would do for me, although I suppose if it's a nerve problem it probably won't go away on it's own.
foomiler
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/12/2008 5:45AM - in reply to mlbfan24 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Consider the ITB again, as I've mentioned way earlier somewhere.

I have known cases where patients go for all sorts of scans and tests for every conceivable pelvic and sacroiliac parts and came up short, and it turns out to be a way thickened and numbed ITB.

Once the ITB becomes overused, it can cause/contribute to anterior pelvic tilt, impede hip rotation, and mess up the timing of your affected leg leaving and touching down on the ground.(This, of course, messes up the coordination
between both legs while walking and running, leading to a myriad of hip and leg injuries, not to mention slower race times.....)

The worst part of this is that one usually does not feel any pain along the conventional areas (like the knee), but might feel it at the hamstrings, groin, adductors. All this while the ITB can feel numb.

Most doctors and therapists are trained to look out for symptoms that are taight to them from med school, and so may miss out on the ITB being one of the causes. And from my limited experiences, ITB is one of the victims of poor posture, form and core strength.

Once it gets bad, it perpetuates that pattern of bad posture/form because the rest of the body needs to compensate and adjust according to the shortened and way thickened band in order for the head to be upright and for the both feet to touch the ground. The quaratus lumborum of the affected side lengthens while the same side shoulder 'freezes' up. This allows the now functionally shortened affected leg to touch the ground. But the lower back at this stage has adopted the 'swayback' position, leaving the glutes unactivated. This overloads the quads and hip flexors, which become shorter, leading the an anterior pelvic tilt on the affected side.

If u feel u have truly exhausted all options, try foam rolling your ITB on your bad leg and see if there's any reaction. Try comparing the texture of the bands between both hips. See if this can lead u anywhere.....
foomiler
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/12/2008 9:40PM - in reply to foomiler Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Also, check out what this fella has posted. Precisely what I've been talking about....

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2669671
track dude
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/12/2008 9:59PM - in reply to foomiler Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I went to a doctor for acupuncture treatment and she wouldn't even treat me, instead she wrote a referral for a knee MRI which I have tomorrow. She said that it's possible that I could have a baker's cyst or maybe a stretched ligament. I'm hoping it will find something.

I just can't understand what the problem is, why I have this feeling of clumsiness on my left side after 2 and a half years, why I feel it with almost every step.
Miss Osage County
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/13/2008 12:25AM - in reply to mlbfan24 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I had the opportunity to see a couple movement disorder specialists at the Mayo Clinic neurology department this week in Scottsdale. They have diagnosed me with a type of dystonia and prescribed a seizure/muscle relaxant medication called Baclofen- no guarantees of course. More info here: http://www.wemove.org. I know that several pages back someone posted about runner's dystonia...

I actually passed on this message thread to the doctors because they said a 3rd doc among them might be interested in doing a study. Maybe they are reading this now... ;-)

Forever a skeptic now after many years of looking for an answer, I'm not convinced about the dystonia because of one particular thing they said at my final appointment. I reviewed the above website they had given me and brought notes in the final appt. I read on the website that the affected limb will have increased muscle tone and I noted that that symptom does not match me, because I have markedly decreased muscle tone in my problematic left leg. I told this to the doctor and he said that there are NO neuromuscular disorders that cause decreased muscle tone. None.

So, hmm... I suppose that means I must not really have dystonia. (Aren't we all posting over and over about weak gluts/hams/adductors/etc??? My problematic leg def has decreased muscle tone.) However, I have the scrip and will try the drug to see if it helps and that the side effects aren't too bad. Perhaps the decreased muscle tone is a long term effect of the dystonia disorder, which the doctor's blanket statement does not mean to include...
yoyo
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/13/2008 7:05AM - in reply to Miss Osage County Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
geez this thread is a joke.

toughen up your glute

end of thread!
Miss Osage County
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/23/2008 1:40PM - in reply to mlbfan24 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My L4 has an annular tear with loss of disc fluid oozing out causing nerve compression, and, fragments pressing into the spine causing nerve compression. It is not a bulging disc, but a herniated disc because the protrusion breaks through the wall of the disc. I saw the CD images and written MRI reports of my lumbar and sacral MRIs showing this.

This is a very good explanation:
http://www.spinalneurosurgery.com/lumbar%20discectomy.htm

Here is a link to another Letsrun thread about this:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=2499432&thread=2498689

Hope this helps some other of you with the loss of muscle coordination problem. I suggest getting your discs checked out... I wish I had been directed to do that 7 years ago!
TLD
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/24/2008 3:04PM - in reply to Miss Osage County Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Miss Osage County,

Thanks so much for your constant persistence in finding a resolution to this problem that we're all experiencing.

When this problem originally developed, everyone thought it was disk related. I had X-rays done of my back but no MRIs of that area. (I later had MRIs of my leg, glute and head (to rule out MS)). The X-rays did not indicate any issues.

Typically whenever anything is disk related, there is pain (sciatica, etc). From your previous posts, I don't recall you mentioning any pain with this problem (I don't have any).

When you were discussing the results of the MRI, did the sports med say whether the annular tear and loose fragments floating around could cause the loss of control but not elicit any pain?

Thanks!
Miss Osage County
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/27/2008 10:41PM - in reply to TLD Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Yes, he said it could cause loss of control but not elicit pain. If SENSORY nerves are affected, you can get SENSATIONS of pain, numbness, tingling. If MOTOR nerves are affected, you can get loss of MOTOR control....

I believe it was on one of the links I posted in my previous post that someone said a determinant for back surgery is: Back pain alone is not a strong cause for back surgery. Weakness or loss of function in your peripherals (arms or legs) IS a strong cause for surgery. These two symptoms are usually indicative of a neural problem, commonly a compression of a nerve that inhibits the proper functioning of a peripheral (arm/leg)...
hskid
RE: loss of coordination in leg 9/28/2008 7:47PM - in reply to yoyo Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
agreed. this thread is a joke. glute med strengthening + hip flexor strengthening + hamstring curls = no problems during racing. do the strength work. end of thread.
run faster
RE: loss of coordination in leg 10/16/2008 6:40PM - in reply to hskid Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
updates???
deezzz
RE: loss of coordination in leg 10/16/2008 6:47PM - in reply to run faster Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
anything????
Miss Osage County
RE: loss of coordination in leg 10/17/2008 10:08AM - in reply to deezzz Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I just had 2 weeks of spinal decompression treatments on a machine called the DRX 9000. I'm not convinced it will fix my damaged disk, but the spine surgeon said "the risks of surgery would not outweigh the rewards" at this point until I've tried the therapy. I'm doing the same old strengthening exercises with a PT person and then have my back pulled/stretched on the machine with half my body weight for 30min. I know my problematic left leg is weak, but without the proper messages from the nerve it is difficult to strengthen...

Hope this may help someone. Have your lumbar spine MRI-ed for a disk compression that could be compromising the integrity of the nerves feeding the legs. My anterior tib is one of my muscles shut down and that's why I get the floppy foot with supination...
gimp
RE: loss of coordination in leg 10/17/2008 2:09PM - in reply to Miss Osage County Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Miss Osage County,

Did you get your spine x-rayed before you got an MRI? If you did, did anything show up? The reason I ask is that I think I am having similar leg and back problems and I recently had my spine x-rayed, but nothing showed up. The doctors don't really seem to be on my side on this one, but I might push to get my an MRI for back if something like a disk compression isn't going to show up on an X-ray. Better now than a year down the road when I still can't run.

Also, did you have any symptoms of ITB, knee pain?
Ryan Warrenburg
RE: loss of coordination in leg 11/11/2008 5:08PM - in reply to mlbfan24 Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
It's been a while since I was on here last, and somehow my post got moved to another thread, I guess I don't know what I am doing. Anyways, I felt obligated to share some of the progress I have made with this issue and some of the things I have discovered. I've put this off for fear of jinxing myself, but here goes.
I seem to have discovered the root cause of my hip problem. I had mentioned earlier about an MRI discovering adhesions in my hip (basically my TFL/glute medius were a total knotted mess not able to work properly). But I hadn't figured out how that happened. I had been going to recieve Graston treatment and that made significant progress, but really it just removed the adhesions, which needed to happen to make progress, but it didn't solve the root of the problem.
As it turns out the foot on my bad leg (left leg) pronates (collapses inward a little when I run) right when I go to push off, and that stress is being transferred to the lateral side of my leg. When I stand normally my left hip actually sits a little lower than the right because my left foot is slightly collapsing inward, it is noticable in the protrusion of the navicular bone and in the arch a little. But if I arch my foot back to "neutral position" then my hips are level, and I think this is what is causing the problem. So I have some orthodics on the way, but recently I have a small lift in my left shoe that seems to be helping also. I'm not quite back to 100%, but things have been going well for a few weeks so I wanted to share and see if this could help anyone out.
Miss Osage County
RE: loss of coordination in leg 11/12/2008 10:48PM - in reply to gimp Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
My only spine xray was 5 years ago in a chiropractor's office. It showed S-curve scoliosis, but nothing was said about a disk issue. Although, the chiro was a joke so it very well could have showed up and he didn't notice/see it.

I had a nerve conduction test June 2008 by a neurologist that came back normal and I asked him to write a referral for the MRI to check my nerve roots. That is how I got the MRI taken and thus the bulging disk damage was identified (even though I went in thinking it was a damaged sciatic nerve that would show up...).

I did/do get ITB and knee pain. Mostly this is because when my left leg shuts down, I get severe knee splay and supination so that my whole left leg is rotated outward. Other muscles fight to pull the leg back in and I get serious torque on both ends of my fibula--- at the ankle and knee--- as my leg fights to do this. So, my knee pain is more of an effect of the actual dead leg feeling.

Yes, go for the MRI if you think it is a back problem! I had mine done on the biggest magnet there is, the 3 Tesla Magnet at a SimonMed facility. Don't waste your time on an open-tube MRI or anything. If your prob is exercise induced, you're laying flat in the MRI and want to make sure it's a high quality magnet that will pick up the prob even without you being weight-bearing laying there in the tube.
http://www.simonmed.com/
Miss Osage County
RE: loss of coordination in leg 11/12/2008 10:56PM - in reply to Ryan Warrenburg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Have you all heard about Seattle quarterback Matt Hasselbeck's injury?: dead leg due to bulging disk. My advice is to get a high-quality MRI of your back! I'm glad you've discovered your problem, Ryan, and are working on the hip adhesions, but I've found I have 2 bulging disks shutting down the nerves that control dorsal flexion and knee extension. Maybe over the years I have developed some adhesions as well and I could look into that...but my underlying problem is the damaged disks. Hope this helps some of you...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/seahawks/2008-10-28-hasselbeck_N.htm?csp=34
foomiler
RE: loss of coordination in leg 12/1/2008 12:55AM - in reply to Ryan Warrenburg Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Other possible things to look into include shortened & overused biceps femoris, knots & adhesions in the calf due to the persistent pronation in the bad foot, nerve entrapment in the foot(Morton's Neuroma), poorly engaged TVA esp during running.
.....
RE: loss of coordination in leg 12/8/2008 11:48AM - in reply to foomiler Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
BUMP
foomiler
RE: loss of coordination in leg 12/9/2008 6:59AM - in reply to Miss Osage County Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Miss Osage County wrote:

Have you all heard about Seattle quarterback Matt Hasselbeck's injury?: dead leg due to bulging disk. My advice is to get a high-quality MRI of your back! I'm glad you've discovered your problem, Ryan, and are working on the hip adhesions, but I've found I have 2 bulging disks shutting down the nerves that control dorsal flexion and knee extension. Maybe over the years I have developed some adhesions as well and I could look into that...but my underlying problem is the damaged disks. Hope this helps some of you...

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/seahawks/2008-10-28-hasselbeck_N.htm?csp=34


Miss Osage County,

I've experienced that too myself, the nerves shutting down dorsiflexion and knee extension, and I've also got adhesions same spots as Ryan. I recall 2 distinct incidences of lower back pain, once 8 years ago after an intense period of swim training (esp doing the butterfly), and again around 3 years ago after doing stiff legged dead lifts with heavier loads than usual.

But I can't tell if the foot mechanics caused the back pain, or vice versa. I could have developed back strain due to compensation for shut down glutes, or the back had a disc bulging and caused my mechanics to go haywire. I have the same screwed up left foot mechanics as you do. Not a clear cut situation to me.

At first I rested and the pain went away. But as months flew by my movement became affected. Symptoms seem to shift all around. Still searching for an answer though.
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