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US Blues
Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 5:45AM Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
This makes no sense ...
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:09AM - in reply to US Blues Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
From the article:

Carey Pinkowski, race director in Chicago, says the runners are slower because they are wiser. "Our participants are much smarter, better trained and better prepared. Though they are slower, they are running more efficiently."

So if I want to get faster, I should get dumber, train poorly, and run inefficiently?
ungoliant
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:17AM - in reply to US Blues Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
averages are funny things. in the 80s they probabyl didn't have half the numbers of charity runners that a lot of the big maras do today. Imagine if there were no charity runners and everyone who had time standards didn't have to worry about the lottery, we'd be beating the numbers from back in the day for sure.
Gutless
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:17AM - in reply to US Blues Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I love the race directors political correctness. The must be sure to not offend the precious soccer moms and charity runners by suggesting they train properly.

The worst part of the article is this ass kiss of Galloway and Penguin." Carey Pinkowski, race director in Chicago, says the runners are slower because they are wiser. "Our participants are much smarter, better trained and better prepared. Though they are slower, they are running more efficiently."

I'd love to see a breakdown of the no shows for a race. This year in Chicago it was around 6,000. I wonder how many came from the above mentioned programs or charities with spots reserved for them.
Gutless
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:20AM - in reply to Gutless Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
"Now the vibe in our event is more participation-based," Pinkowski says. Some runners carry cell phones, others jog with camcorders. Though Chicago, known for sausages and beer bellies, has become a running town, the race director says its signature race has become a "social event."


As a Chicagoan, this comment makes me want to vomit.
Boing
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:33AM - in reply to US Blues Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
"Our participants are much smarter, better trained and better prepared. Though they are slower, they are running more efficiently."

This isn't necessarily a contradicatory statement. If you consider that the same runners who are now finishing in 4:30-6:00 weren't even getting off the couch in the 80's, they are definitely running more efficiently. Not everyone has been blessed with 4 flat speed and not everyone can commit the time to putting in 100 mile weeks, but 10+ min/miler runners have shown that with proper and focused training, they can finish a marathon. Why should that offend any of you elitists out there?

Your attitudes make me want to vomit.
??????????
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:38AM - in reply to Boing Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
So simply getting off the couch is now considered a great feat?
Go Figure
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:47AM - in reply to ?????????? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

?????????? wrote:

So simply getting off the couch is now considered a great feat?


I was thinking the same thing. At what point did an hour of aerobic exercise per day become abnormal? It strikes me that the marathon "training" that many pursue -- and not without discomfort and trepidation -- is the bare minimum that they should be doing on a daily basis simply to maintain a basline level of health and fitness.
maynard
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:47AM - in reply to ?????????? Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Folks, like it or not (I certainly don't), marathons today are big business. There's more money to be made by pandering to 5 hour marathon jog/walkers than there is in catering to sub-3 hour competitors. Running stores have figured this out, too. Just walk into one and see how many racing shoes they carry (if they carry any at all). There are more gallowalkers than competitors in running today, and for race directors it's all about the money, so guess who gets catered to?
Munson
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:49AM - in reply to Boing Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Boing wrote:
10+ min/miler runners have shown that with proper and focused training, they can finish a marathon. Why should that offend any of you elitists out there?


I think the idea is that with proper and focused training, they would be running a little better than 10+ minute miles.
Go Figure
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 6:55AM - in reply to maynard Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

maynard wrote:

Folks, like it or not (I certainly don't), marathons today are big business.


I think that is more of symptom then the root problem. The increase in marathon starts and decrease in speed is not due to race directors asking folks to come run 5-hour races. It's because people now think finishing a marathon at any speed is an accomplishment, and they think that an 11 mpm pace is pretty fast.

Kudos to the Chicago rep questioning whether that is really running at all.
maynard
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 7:02AM - in reply to Go Figure Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Go Figure wrote:


maynard wrote:

Folks, like it or not (I certainly don't), marathons today are big business.


I think that is more of symptom then the root problem. The increase in marathon starts and decrease in speed is not due to race directors asking folks to come run 5-hour races. It's because people now think finishing a marathon at any speed is an accomplishment, and they think that an 11 mpm pace is pretty fast.

Kudos to the Chicago rep questioning whether that is really running at all.


For the most part, I agree with you. However, there's no question that marathon organizers have changed their tunes and are now blatantly marketing themselves to the gallowalkers (oftentimes at the expense of competitors).

I also give kudos to the Chicago rep for having the courage to stand up to the sell outs.
Whaaaaa
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 7:15AM - in reply to maynard Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
It's amazing how low human expectations have sunk in this country, Just getting off the couch is now an act worthy of great praise, and anyone who questions why is called and elitist.
Water Rat
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 7:43AM - in reply to Boing Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
It doesn't offend me that their now getting off the couch. But it pisses me off when they fill up a great race months ahead of time and then 6000 of them don't show up. It takes away spots from those who are training to run the damn thing fast. I guess you can always plunk down your $100 four months early but you stand a decent chance of losing it because of an injury or illness too close to the race (as opposed to not feeling like it on that morning or deciding against it after your training topped out at 20 miles per week).
Jogster
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 7:46AM - in reply to US Blues Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I am pleased and satisfied to run marathons at whatever pace and level of conditioning I choose. There are many of us who participate (not compete) in marathons and other races as social events to celebrate and motivate our fitness goals. I'm sorry for those of you who are so frustrated by it all.
.............
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 7:48AM - in reply to Jogster Reply | Return to Index | Report Post

Jogster wrote:

I am pleased and satisfied to run marathons at whatever pace and level of conditioning I choose. There are many of us who participate (not compete) in marathons and other races as social events to celebrate and motivate our fitness goals. I'm sorry for those of you who are so frustrated by it all.



Why don't you celebrate in a 5k or half marathon?
Boing
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 7:49AM - in reply to Whaaaaa Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I have worked with a lot of slow marathoners and to say that they don't work as hard as some of you is ridiculous. When it takes you 5 hours to complete a long run and an hour to complete a 5 mile run, the time commitment to training becomes incredible. Extrapolate that out to a 50 mile week and they are spending about the same amount of time as a faster runner would running 100 miles.

Like it or not, completing a marathon is a feat regardless of your time. I don't see why there is anomysity towards a 5 hour marathoner. How are they affecting you? Does it somehow make a 2:30 marathoner look bad that there are 5:00 hour marathoners in the same race?

I know the attitudes on this board are that anyone can go sub 3:00 with proper training, but that is not reality. There are people out there who could never break 10 minute miles regardless of how smart or hard they trained. That's the facts. In other sports they say that the truly gifted players don't make good coaches, because they can't relate to the everyday player. I think the same thing is happening here. That is why I referred to the attitude as elitist. I'll stick by that.
nizzasstyy
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 8:04AM - in reply to Boing Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Hey boing- If you go to africa and say that anyone can run a 3 hr marathon-they'll look at you and say, "well yeah"...In america, when they say that even a child can work/ navigate a computer, noone questions it....

The standards for long distance running in the general population has definitely been lowered...to say that 3 hr marathons is not possible for the majority of people is to vastly underestimate their potential....

Now one could make the arguments for weight gain among the population, coupled with poor eating, lack of outdoor activities...but dont sell 'em short...
Boing
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 8:13AM - in reply to nizzasstyy Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
I guess if you're saying that if you take a 15 year old kid and say one day you will run a 3 hr. marathon, then yes, anyone can do it. However, if you take a 45 year old male who has never run in his life and is overweight, chances are, he will never run a sub 3 marathon. However, isn't it still an accomplishment for him to complete a marathon after a lifetime of a sedentary activities? I think so. That is what I mean when I say reality. The reality is that there are people out there who will never run under 4 hours let alone 3, regardless of how much they train.
zippy
RE: Dumbing Down of The Marathon In US 11/4/2005 8:16AM - in reply to ............. Reply | Return to Index | Report Post
Who the hell are you to decide how far someone else should race/walk/crawl?

Yes, you might run faster, but you are a runner - many of these people are many other things, but choose to push themselves in something they have never done before - you all b**** about how fat and lazy people are, when they are out rying to change that, you ridicule them.




............. wrote:
Why don't you celebrate in a 5k or half marathon?
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