Germany CANNOT be reporting accurately

SprintTriathlon wrote:

If you start testing a lot and massively from the start, shut down early (not like in the US were Trump did not face the facts), have a good (call it socialist you ignorants) healthcare system like Norway and Germany, you have personnel and equipment to ship to help other countries.

this--relatively poor primary care and public health infrastructure in the US compared to Germany/Canada etc is costing lives...

cwarcarblue11 wrote:

I live in AZ. My wife and I have been experiencing minor covid symptoms, and my wife went to the ER since she had some unusual effects. They did labs but did not test her because there were "no life threatening symptoms". They could tell she had a virus and said it was likely covid, but they only test those who have severe symptoms.

This is why we have such a high death rate compared to Germany and South Korea. They are only testing people with severe symptoms.

We are doing ok now and after 2 weeks we are much better.

Getting tested would not have made a whit of difference in you or your wife’s cases. The outcome of the test would not have altered your course of treatment.

Germany has 3.4 ICU beds per 10K inhabitants. The USA has 1.4 ICU beds per 10k inhabitants. Add on universal healthcare and you have a demonstrably better healthcare system.

Uhh.. Germany has a fatality rate of 2.7% and climbing. South korea has a fatality rate of 2.1%, and these numbers are climbing.

Deniers have been clinging to these countries as evidence of a low (<1%) death rate. In what world is a 2%+ death rate low? Would you take a plane, or drive a car, if you had a >2% of dying everytime you got behind the wheel?

Another thing deniers love to bring up is the artificially low denominator of confirmed cases , due to a lack of testing, which is inflating the death rate. Sure - let's just assume this is true, and the number of people who have had covid 19 is a lot higher.

what deniers don't realize is that active cases don't contribute to that denominator... take a look at the death rate for cases that have reached a decision i.e. had an outcome, either resulting in a death or in a recovery. In Germany, the fatality rate for closed cases is 5% - in the USA its 40%. Worldwide its 21%.

The real death rate is somewhere between 2-21% - all evidence points to this being a highly infectious and deadly disease. Only deniers think otherwise.

death rate is sort of a meaningless number at this point. When it is all over we can get estimates of what the death rate is. If this Covid19 would have killed 3 million americans or 300k without social distancing probably doesn't make a difference from how we respond to it. We are at 2400 deaths/day after weeks of social distancing. Thats a lot of carnage and if we follow the china/italy trend we are going to be looking at around 60k-100k deaths total at the end of another 6 weeks. What we will never know is if those numbers would have been 5k or 10k without social distancing.

Germany right now is doing much better than the US. What is harder to say is if they are just a week behind us or if they are actually doing better. Of course the same thing goes for the US. RIght now we basically only have problems in NYC, NJ, CT and LA. What isn't clear if the rest of the country is just a week behind them or if the rest of the country will not be hit as hard. If say Texas or. CA ends up like NY, the numbers would get really scary.

So much disinformation here.

Come on. This is so easy to figure out. More testing available so of course if you look at percentages Germany's numbers will look better. No one that is not in serious condition gets tested in the US or most places.

As for the nonsense about socialized medicine going around in this thread, it has already been stated that lack of service is not the problem. Hospitals won't just turn you away if you are dying. Most Americans have insurance as it is. The level of care you receive will be identical in Germany as in the US. All socialized healthcare would have changed in this pandemic is that everyone's care would be subsidized by the middle class while the elite would get to pay for private providers in cash.

I have several friends from Canada and the UK that have lived with socialized health care. One of them needed a hip replacement and was told it would be 4 months before they could schedule her. She told them to eff off and paid a private provider $9000 cash to have it done the next week. A buddy in Canada has a mountain bike crash that caused a shoulder muscle to tear. Docs said it would be 2 months to schedule the surgery he needed. He went across the border and paid cash to have it fixed in 2 weeks. I can go see a specialist tomorrow for any injury or problem I may have. Access is never a problem here. It would be under socialized medicine and everyone's taxes would go up at least 10%. Stop with the BS.

Trump de facto socialized the medicine regarding covid19 by making treatment free.

There is zero chance the mortality rate is as high as 21%. Around 1-2% is most likely. You are going to pick up a higher proportion of deaths than cases, particularly when 80% plus of cases have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic, and testing kits are in short supply.

In Australia we have 6,000 cases and 60 deaths (and around 3,000 active cases). So that’s 1% of total cases and 2% of closed cases. Our testing has been widespread and effective (around 2% of tests come back positive), so most likely the majority of cases are being picked up - but there are almost certainly asymptomatic or mild cases which have been missed.

On the other hand, some of the current patients will end up dying. So on balance 1-2% is in the right ball park.

Of course even 1% is a very deadly disease which would result in 80 million deaths if everyone in the world was infected, and likely much more since mortality is likely to be higher when health systems are overwhelmed (or nonexistent in some countries). So there’s no reason to pretend the virus is 20 times worse than that - it’s something we need to take seriously.

jhgbfvtg wrote:

Actually, they don’t particular stick out

Austria is at 41 death per million

Germany at 36 death per million

Liechtenstein at 26 death per million

They are pretty much right in the middle for that region of Europe

Countries that do however stick out in that region are Slovakia 0.4 per million, Poland 6 per million and Czechia 13 per million.

Top 5 beer compsumption countries per capita.

1. Czech Republic

2. Namibia

3. Austria

4. Germany

5. Poland

Vitamin C2 passes virtual screening as a drug candidate against Nsp1 protein which is similar to Remdesivir's action.

It is a component of barley. This is likely not a coincidence.

BadWiginsisDumb wrote:

Only deniers think otherwise.

A lemming pushing the groupthink

I leave this here

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/apr/15/brian-may-blames-meat-eating-for-rise-of-coronavirus

The news is reporting that the tests and death rates are higher for African Americans. That would indicate that they are infected at a higher rate, but it could also mean that they are more likely to present symptoms.

One of the candidate compounds to suppress SARS-Cov-2 is B12.

There are measurable differences in serum B12 levels between blacks and whites. B12 supplementation varies around the world. There is also a large difference in the prevalence of sickle cell trait. Perhaps a large viral load sucks up all your serum B12 and starts causing megloblasts to form. This affects people differently. There is a lot of overlap in the symptoms of Covid-19 and pernicious anemia. That is a weird coincidence. If this type of blood formation was causing deaths, it would seem like that wouldn't have been overlooked though.

Werner von Braun wrote:

I leave this here

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/apr/15/brian-may-blames-meat-eating-for-rise-of-coronavirus

If you buy into the drug screenings that have shown B12 to be a candidate, he is either protected by B12 supplements or not protected at all as a vegan.

Another drug candidate that would be of interest here is lactose.

Only 15% of Germans are lactose intolerant compared to 75% of African Americans and likely consume much more lactose.

You need to chill and stop the name calling and insults.

Purell Frank wrote:

The news is reporting that the tests and death rates are higher for African Americans. That would indicate that they are infected at a higher rate, but it could also mean that they are more likely to present symptoms.

One of the candidate compounds to suppress SARS-Cov-2 is B12.

There are measurable differences in serum B12 levels between blacks and whites. B12 supplementation varies around the world. There is also a large difference in the prevalence of sickle cell trait. Perhaps a large viral load sucks up all your serum B12 and starts causing megloblasts to form. This affects people differently. There is a lot of overlap in the symptoms of Covid-19 and pernicious anemia. That is a weird coincidence. If this type of blood formation was causing deaths, it would seem like that wouldn't have been overlooked though.

Do you have any source for any of this?

Or it could be that they live in denser & poorer areas, where it's harder to socially distance, poorer people are less healthy etc. All that stuff needs to be isolated first.

This is a theory and conjecture. I don't know if it could actually suck up your B12 like that. I am pretty sure B12 is in your mucous membranes and so it would be your first line of defense if it works like that.

I have been reading more about B12 and lower repository diseases and it looks like that isn't something new and so there are some sources for that. I am trying to look that up. I don't think this is unique to the SARS-CoV-2 proteins.

Here is what made me start thinking though. Obviously this is a computer drug screening study, etc.

The average surgeon does not make 7 times the amount the average general physician makes