These are important points, but the late-stage citizenship feels weird. If Kipchoge immigrates here next year, and sets another WR, would he be the greatest US runner?
These are important points, but the late-stage citizenship feels weird. If Kipchoge immigrates here next year, and sets another WR, would he be the greatest US runner?
under a bridge wrote:
hallfan wrote:
KK has strong rumors of doping
BS
BS? I think most people I know assume elite athletes from Morocco were dirty, particularly before the ABP existed and for pretty good reason.
Remember this?
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1226890Dr Yuengling wrote:
I voted for Hall. I dont think being ‘American-born’ is the be all and end all, but there’s a big difference between guys like Ches who essentially spent their entire running career here, and guys like Khannouchi who were already established. To Hall’s credit, he ran faster, and was at the forefront of American distance running from high school onward.
Now let me defend Khannouchi here. He totally developed as an elite runner in this country. The dude was washing dishes in NYC hitting the roads on the weekends. I think his claim to fame before moving here was World University Games champ.
Anyone know what Khannouchi’s actual PRs were before he moved here?
Anyone know what Khannouchi is up to now?
rojo wrote:
Dr Yuengling wrote:
I voted for Hall. I dont think being ‘American-born’ is the be all and end all, but there’s a big difference between guys like Ches who essentially spent their entire running career here, and guys like Khannouchi who were already established. To Hall’s credit, he ran faster, and was at the forefront of American distance running from high school onward.
Now let me defend Khannouchi here. He totally developed as an elite runner in this country. The dude was washing dishes in NYC hitting the roads on the weekends. I think his claim to fame before moving here was World University Games champ.
Anyone know what Khannouchi’s actual PRs were before he moved here?
Anyone know what Khannouchi is up to now?
I'm very torn over this it's actually a pretty complicated comparison. On the one hand I don't really like considering athletes that become citizens after they are adults but it's true that he did become the runner that he was while he was here in the US. He's also from a country where doping in distance running at the time was everywhere. Then again he also never competed in an Olympic games for Morocco and that's absolutely where I draw the line on the matter. To the one poster that said Hall was more inspiring because of how he ran I don't buy that. When KK was in his prime he raced aggressively. The reason why Hall seems more inspiring while doing it is because you just knew that he couldn't beat those at the very very top of international marathoning. He was punching above his weight class so to speak. If I had to choose I'd pick KK but it's very close. I just loved watching them both race though.
It would be interesting to know what he's up to Rojo you should try to get that done.
They probably see his "204:58" at Boston (which he calls 204) and do not realize a 30 mph tailwind gave everyone four minutes in the race.
Kim Kardashian is better by far.
Strike 1: he immigrated from Morocco, a doping hotbed
Strike 2: he only became an American in the second half of his career
Strike 3: he’s from a different generation. Younger runners have no idea who he is.
I saw KK run at the world university games in Buffalo, from where he fled to avoid going back to Morocco. He was in the 5000m. He won his heat, last heat with ease, looking like a million bucks (turned out to be a low estimate based on what he probably earned as a runner.)
Anyway, the final is run on a hot afternoon. He wins it running a 2:23 last 1000m in around 14 minutes. He looked freaking incredible, and it was obvious the guy was a serious talent. Based on his closing speed in that race, he could have been a great track runner, but he chose a route where he could make the most money, the marathon.
trump card move wrote:
I saw KK run at the world university games in Buffalo, from where he fled to avoid going back to Morocco. He was in the 5000m. He won his heat, last heat with ease, looking like a million bucks (turned out to be a low estimate based on what he probably earned as a runner.)
Anyway, the final is run on a hot afternoon. He wins it running a 2:23 last 1000m in around 14 minutes. He looked freaking incredible, and it was obvious the guy was a serious talent. Based on his closing speed in that race, he could have been a great track runner, but he chose a route where he could make the most money, the marathon.
That's really interesting. It's also worth pointing out that he ran 27:45 10k at Peachtree. Would guess that's worth at least 13:10-13:20 for 5k on the track
rojo wrote:
under a bridge wrote:
BS
BS? I think most people I know assume elite athletes from Morocco were dirty, particularly before the ABP existed and for pretty good reason.
Remember this?
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=1226890
Of course I remember that. A country having a doping problem is not the same as saying that an individual (who lived for years in the US) has “strong rumors of doping”.
Quit with the intellectual dishonesty.
I voted KK, but this one was very close for me. Hall’s HS accomplishments, NCAA 5k title, and AR half are all things KK did not have in his limited time as a citizen. However, in the end, I couldn’t get past a WR and win over Geb and Tergat.
This was same for me. KK was not at the top as an American for that long but the London WR was the deciding factor in voting for KK.
One of the greatest races of all time. Geb was the Emperor, the 5k and 10k WR holder, the Olympic champ - he had dominated distance running on the track for a decade. Tergat was a legend in his own right.
Geb wanted the WR and asked for a suicidal pace. I don't think he really believed that a road guy like KK could actually beat him, even though KK held the WR. At mile 22 the 3 of them were running together. When KK made his move, to everyone's surprise, Geb was the one dropped. KK got the WR, Tergat finished under the old WR, and Geb only got the Ethiopian record.
mwh wrote:
These are important points, but the late-stage citizenship feels weird. If Kipchoge immigrates here next year, and sets another WR, would he be the greatest US runner?
If Kipchoge had lived here since before he was great and before anyone had heard of him, then yes.
I think we can all agree, though, that unless you think a miler is not a "distance runner", you would have to be either a moran or a troll to vote for Hall over Jim Ryun!