Deadspin: After 5 NFL seasons, Jameis Winston is just as good as Payton Manning, but he's black so no one acknowledges it

The real issue here is that Peyton Manning just wasn't as good as people make him out to be. I know few will agree, but it's true.

Manning played in a VERY weak division against two expansion teams -- Houston and Jacksonville. He was virtually guaranteed four division wins just because those two teams were perennial losers. Add in a Tennessee team which was practically an expansion team in of itself, and you start to see how the Colts won their division year after year.

This led to annual playoff appearances as a division winner. Manning had a terrible playoff record. He held the record for the most "one and dones" - something like 9 or ten years where they lost their first playoff game.

The one Superbowl year with the Colts, the defense completely carried the team. Manning threw more picks than TDs during that playoff run

The same could be said for his championship with the Broncos. He could barely throw, and a backup quarterback and the defense carried him across the finish line.

Not saying he was a terrible qb. The yards and TDs (and turnovers!) were real. But put Manning in the AFC East, NFC North, or another division with more competition, and he's not in the playoffs every year. He'd have more closely resembled Philip Rivers.

Ever stop and think that the reason the teams in Manning's division didn't have such good records is because they kept losing to the Colts.

I mean, I'll give Brady credit for his Super Bowls, but the AFC East was an extremely weak division for much of his time in New England- weaker than what Manning was up against. It's like Brady's season really just started when the Pats got the playoffs.

#FakeWoke

What The wrote:

Ever stop and think that the reason the teams in Manning's division didn't have such good records is because they kept losing to the Colts.

I mean, I'll give Brady credit for his Super Bowls, but the AFC East was an extremely weak division for much of his time in New England- weaker than what Manning was up against. It's like Brady's season really just started when the Pats got the playoffs.

The best quarterbacks play better in big games. Manning rarely if ever did.

In home playoff games against division foes, Manning was miserable - like, 2-5. At the time, Brady was 8-1.

Manning played .500 ball in the playoffs when he was favored to win. Brady was like 18-6.

Lots of other stats out there to prove the point. He simply wasn't a good big game quarterback. He feasted on weak divisional rivals to inflate his stats.

This thread is as click baity as the article. I don't even think it requires much analysis besides the completely obvious.

Also Peyton Manning's numbers were inflated from playing half his games in a dome and beating up on the horrid AFC South for 6 games/year. He won the Super Bowl because the Colts defense was actually good that year and the Chicago Bears with Rex Grossman at the helm were always going to squashed at some point in the playoffs. That Bears team won in spite of Grossman. Just look at how the Colts bombed out of the playoffs pretty much every year while Tom Brady racked up Super Bowl appearances. That's all you need to know about how overrated Peyton Manning was.

Rojo starting threads about black people again

sub sub elite local hobby jogger wrote:

This thread is as click baity as the article. I don't even think it requires much analysis besides the completely obvious.

Also Peyton Manning's numbers were inflated from playing half his games in a dome and beating up on the horrid AFC South for 6 games/year. He won the Super Bowl because the Colts defense was actually good that year and the Chicago Bears with Rex Grossman at the helm were always going to squashed at some point in the playoffs. That Bears team won in spite of Grossman. Just look at how the Colts bombed out of the playoffs pretty much every year while Tom Brady racked up Super Bowl appearances. That's all you need to know about how overrated Peyton Manning was.

Rex Grossman later admitted he was drunk during that game.

rojo wrote:

ReallybroReally wrote:

oh come on. Stats now are misleading due to rule changes. And Manning did not throw interceptions the way Winston does.

You are correct. Manning threw MORE interceptions in his first 5 years than Manning, 100 to 88. Did you note read the article and see the stats.

See below.

deadspin wrote:

Peyton: 20,618 passing yards; 138 TDs, 100 INTs, 62.1 Completion percentage.; 85.9 QB rating; 4.9 TD rate; 3.5 INT rate

Jameis: 19,737 passing yards; 121 TDs, 88 INTs, 61.3 Completion percentage 86.9 QB rating; 4.7 TD rate; 3.5 INT rate

Posters are getting defensive with your P Manning and J Winston comparison.

I will state this: If Jameis Winston were brought into training camp and allowed to compete for starting job, he would beat out 3/4ths of N.F.L. QBs. If there were an open competition in Tampa Bay, no way Brady would beat out Winston for the starting job. Tampa Bay Bucs are hoping Brady throws 20 fewer interceptions than Winston threw last season while also throwing more than 20 touchdowns, 2020. Tampa Bay had a down field passing game last season. Brady cannot throw the ball down the field anymore. It will be an offense with three and eight yard passing routes, 2020. That said, Winston is one of the ten best QBs in N.F.L. by talent.

Winston's talents are different than talents possessed by Jay Cutler &/or Jeff George, but similar. Very talented guys who threw a lot of INT. Teams were not super happy having those guys as starters but those guys were way too talented to be back ups.

Manning put up huge numbers against mostly bad teams. But I will say this - he picked apart the Patriots in the 2006 AFC CG (after getting down 21-3).

600yd/600m man wrote:

Brady cannot throw the ball down the field anymore. It will be an offense with three and eight yard passing routes, 2020.

Keep saying that. If the Bucs can protect him, Brady will be able to throw the ball downfield just fine. The Patriots had no downfield threat and an iffy offensive line. Hence the short passing game.

It's almost like winning or losing matters more than the stats.

If someone told you Centro ran 3:50 for the 1500 in the Olympic games, it wouldn't be impressive. But if they told you he won the Olympic Gold in the 1500, that's a different story.

ReallybroReally wrote:

600yd/600m man wrote:

Brady cannot throw the ball down the field anymore. It will be an offense with three and eight yard passing routes, 2020.

Keep saying that. If the Bucs can protect him, Brady will be able to throw the ball downfield just fine. The Patriots had no downfield threat and an iffy offensive line. Hence the short passing game.

That is a big IF. Winston was not protected extremely well last season. There are numerous reasons why a starting QB should not be 43. A QB is supposed to be able to run around behind line of scrimmage for five or six seconds so receivers can get 40 or 50 yards down field. When I first heard rumors Brady was looking at Bucs, I thought: This will be good. Brady will back up the highly talented Jameis Winston. Brady will be like 38 year old Earl Morrall during 1972 perfect season. I was hoping Brady would be Winston's mentor. George Blanda was an old QB mentor to both Daryle Lamonica and Ken Stabler. Old QBs fall off severely. Do you recall how good Brett Favre was in 2009? Favre looked very old in 2010.

So the Broncos will try to grab him? Or will it be Da Bears?

Fine, if he's really that good then multiple GMs should be lining up to sign him and trade away or bench their lesser QBs. They aren't going to miss out on someone who's a known quantity, proven to lead and win in the NFL. It beats the crapshoot of drafting that position. He won't crater out like Manziel or Kap, but I don't see him winding up in a better situation than he had. He's still a project after 5 years in the league. I don't disagree that PM was really overrated, he had a good storyline being the first son of an NFL legend with pro level talent, being well-groomed and well-spoken (even if he's plagued by a massive forehead), basically all of the traits of being born on third base, but he wasn't a true championship type leader like Brady, Montana, or even Elway (and I can't stand Elway, think he's a brat).

no need the visit this site anymore.....it's clearly barked the hump one too many times.

600yd/600m man wrote:

That is a big IF. Winston was not protected extremely well last season. There are numerous reasons why a starting QB should not be 43. A QB is supposed to be able to run around behind line of scrimmage for five or six seconds so receivers can get 40 or 50 yards down field. When I first heard rumors Brady was looking at Bucs, I thought: This will be good. Brady will back up the highly talented Jameis Winston. Brady will be like 38 year old Earl Morrall during 1972 perfect season. I was hoping Brady would be Winston's mentor. George Blanda was an old QB mentor to both Daryle Lamonica and Ken Stabler. Old QBs fall off severely. Do you recall how good Brett Favre was in 2009? Favre looked very old in 2010.

Well, note I did say if. But Brady's arm has nothing to do with that. As far as "A QB is supposed to be able to run around behind line of scrimmage for five or six seconds so receivers can get 40 or 50 yards down field." I have no idea how you came up with that. Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, Philip Rivers just to name a few are not mobile. How about Dan Marino? Johnny Unitas? Brady for the last 18 years. I guess they all should have found a different position?

BOHICA wrote:

So the Broncos will try to grab him? Or will it be Da Bears?

The Bears would have been a great home for him, but they stupidly traded for Nick Foles, so they now have two quarterbacks on their roster making qb1 money. They'd have to get rid of Foles or Trubisky to afford Winston.

sexual assault allegations:

Manning -- 1

Winston -- 2

sexual assault allegation cover-ups by university/boosters:

Manning -- 1

Winston -- 1

What The wrote:

There are far fewer interceptions in the league now than in Manning's first years due to rule changes and other factors, so Winston's INTs do stand out as a huge number.

Plus he's clearly nowhere near the caliber of Mahomes or Lamar Jackson or about a half-dozen other guys.

So why did you even start this thread?

Somebody didn't read the article. Either that or they didn't understand what they read.