Konstanze Klosterhalfen is impressively strong, she lifts heavier than I can

Math + Experience wrote:

A Travesty wrote:

This is not true. Besides the obvious benefits of injury resilience and stressing (and thus strengthening) your nervous system, doing low rep/high weight lifting will increase the power output from you legs, which translates into increased speed and stride length.

Right, which is why this is one of the fastest men in the world.

https://barbend.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Hafthor-Bjornsson-Squats-a-485kg-PR.png

Nice work with your bad faith argument. Using an extreme, hyperbolic example in an attempt to disprove my argument is proof you know absolutely nothing about which you are talking about. This does nothing for your case other than being bigger makes you slower, which won't happen necessarily just because you are lifting weights. I'd explain why and we could go in sport specificity, nutrition, basic physics, but you obviously aren't interested and probably don't care.

Anyway, for those who are interested and not posting nonsense, here's a nice, easy to understand article explaining why low rep/high weight lifting heavy can benefit your running.

A Travesty wrote:

LateRunnerPhil wrote:

Jan Frodeno, best triathlete in the world only builds his (half!)-squats to 1.5x body weight, and he needs way more strength/power than a runner since he needs to bike 180k. There is no point to lift super heavy as endurance athlete, the risk/effort/benefit ratio just isn't there.

This is not true. Besides the obvious benefits of injury resilience and stressing (and thus strengthening) your nervous system, doing low rep/high weight lifting will increase the power output from you legs, which translates into increased speed and stride length.

The power output is not specific to running (different motion). Still, I think heavy lifting is good but the question is HOW heavy do distance runners need to lift. If you ask me, doing 3x5 half-squats at 1.5x BW is more than enough for what you need. That already gets you in the top 2-3% of distance runners in terms of strength. Most are just aerobic beasts but really weak, especially females can benefit from lifting up to that weight.

3-5x5 at 2.0x BW or more would already be considered a moderately high level in lifting (just go to a standard gym in your area, I've been to many different gyms and not many people lift sets of twice their body weight) and is not necessary unless you are a sprinter, it might even be detrimental if you end up building some muscle mass that's heavy.

Why is lifting very heavy not that great? It will fatigue your legs, and take away from the running sessions. It will force you to run super easy when you could be running moderate or to slow down on your workout days. The most important training for running performance is still running, and anything that will even just slightly impact that negatively should be avoided. Lifting is good - but only as the icing on the cake, not as MAJOR addition where the goal is to keep improving the weights and cause a lot of muscular fatigue week after week.

Mottram and Solinsky both stopped lifting weights because they felt it interfered with their running. But they ran really hard, Solinsky never went above 6 min/mile pace and Mottram, even though known for super-easy easy runs, often had moderate runs at 5:30-5:40/mi many times a week on easy double days (50 min moderate morning, 30 min easy evening).

Decent strength, nothing crazy wrote:

The standard hex trap bar weighs 30 pounds, they do make 45 pound versions but I don't think this is one of them. We can't see how much the plates are, but I'm guessing they're 25 pound plates. So she's lifting at least 130 pounds, maybe a little more. Good strength but I wouldn't say I'm impressed, I would expect an elite runner to easily lift more than their body weight with their legs. Now if she was benching 115 I'd be impressed.

I have a citywide YMCA membership in New York City. I usually work out in either of two locations. One location has a hex bar weighing 53 pounds, the other has one weighing 60 pounds.

A Travesty wrote:

Nice work with your bad faith argument. Using an extreme, hyperbolic example in an attempt to disprove my argument is proof you know absolutely nothing about which you are talking about. This does nothing for your case other than being bigger makes you slower, which won't happen necessarily just because you are lifting weights. I'd explain why and we could go in sport specificity, nutrition, basic physics, but you obviously aren't interested and probably don't care.

Anyway, for those who are interested and not posting nonsense, here's a nice, easy to understand article explaining why low rep/high weight lifting heavy can benefit your running.

https://runnersconnect.net/weight-training-for-distance-runners/

I'm obviously not interested because I pointed out what you're saying wasn't true? I've dedicated the last 25 years of my life to endurance sport and athletics in general. It is a fact that increasing one's squat or deadlift does not necessarily translate to greater speed and a longer stride length. It can for some, sure, but to make a blanket statement is nonsense.

You literally didn't say anything to refute my post. You posted a picture of a power lifter. That proves nothing other than power lifters need to lift in order to compete in power lifting. If you'd like to respond to the link I posted and actually critique that, I'd welcome that! But if you can't understand a how a low rep/high weightlifting program (backed by science btw) for runners/endurance athletes is going to be different from that for power lifters (like how sprinters/mid distance/long distance train differently), then you obviously haven't learned much from the "25 years of your life" you've dedicated to athletics.

Try posting some actual studies, not some random opinion article on the net using ridiculous examples of sprinting at 500 watts.

math + experiences wrote:

A Travesty wrote:

You literally didn't say anything to refute my post. You posted a picture of a power lifter. That proves nothing other than power lifters need to lift in order to compete in power lifting. If you'd like to respond to the link I posted and actually critique that, I'd welcome that! But if you can't understand a how a low rep/high weightlifting program (backed by science btw) for runners/endurance athletes is going to be different from that for power lifters (like how sprinters/mid distance/long distance train differently), then you obviously haven't learned much from the "25 years of your life" you've dedicated to athletics.

Try posting some actual studies, not some random opinion article on the net using ridiculous examples of sprinting at 500 watts.

Ask and you shall receive. Here's three!

"Maximal strength training for 8 wk improved RE and increased time to exhaustion at MAS among well-trained, long-distance runners, without change in maximal oxygen uptake or body weight."

They performed the following tests before and after 4 weeks of training: 1) incremental treadmill test to exhaustion to determine of peak oxygen uptake and the velocity corresponding to 3.5 mM of blood lactate concentration; 2) submaximal constant-intensity test to determine RE; 3) maximal countermovement jump test and; 4) one repetition maximal strength test in leg press. After the training period, there was an improvement in RE only in the HWT group (HWT = 47.3 ± 6.8 vs. 44.3 ± 4.9 ml · kg−1 · min−1; EST = 46.4 ± 4.1 vs. 45.5 ± 4.1 ml · kg−1 · min−1). In conclusion, a short period of traditional strength training can improve RE in well-trained runners, but this improvement can be dependent on the strength training characteristics. When comparing to explosive training performed in the same equipment, heavy weight training seems to be more efficient for the improvement of RE.

All three modes of strength training used concurrently with endurance training were effective in improving treadmill running endurance performance. However, both heavy and explosive strength training were beneficial in improving neuromuscular characteristics, and heavy resistance training in particular contributed to improvements in high-intensity running characteristics. Thus, endurance runners should include heavy resistance training in their training programmes to enhance endurance performance, such as improving sprinting ability at the end of a race.

If you are an adult male under the age of 60 without any significant musculoskeletal problems and cannot do what she's doing in that video, you are extremely weak.

I'd put Frank Shorter and Bill Rodgers in their day up against any American marathoner doing that type of strength training since, with the exception of Rupp and maybe one or two others, and they'd defeat if not destroy them.

The first study linked does not come to the conclusion that lifting increased their maximal speed or stride length as you claimed. They said running economy improves 5% in the group who ran a 5K on average in the low 19:00 range. Interestingly in this study they cut the control groups volume of intensity in half versus what they were doing before the study but didn’t make that same adjustment to the training of the intervention group.

Look at the hip angle of David Rudisha mid stride.

https://www.google.com/search?q=david+rudisha+running&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwjDv6Dz8MnoAhXKaKwKHXMxDigQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=david+rudisha+running&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzICCAAyBAgAEBg6BAgAEEM6BQgAEIMBOgYIABAIEB5Q6q0BWMzJAWCxygFoAnAAeACAAXCIAZIQkgEEMTguNZgBAKABAaoBC2d3cy13aXotaW1n&sclient=img&ei=L-2FXoPsFsrRsQXz4rjAAg&rlz=1C1GCEA_en#imgrc=ZcApnZ33iKpYAM

His knee and hip angles are equivalent to a deep lunge. Running at the speeds he is running requires full glute engagement. The faster you run, the more you rely on your glutes to run fast.

Takeaway:

Working on exercises that increase your glute strength and mobility at the end of its range ( Full squats, deep lunges) will improve your ability to open your stride. Having an open and supple stride allows you to maximize your aerobic engine which is the most important thing in running.

Runners should be lifting pretty heavy. Low rep, high weight maximizes power with a minimal amount of hypertrophy.