What kind of quarter speed does Nico Young have?

CopperRunner wrote:

At a certain point, muscle mass definitely does matter over ft/st. I in no area said sprinters have to be big and muscular. On the other hand, I’d say Nico would have to gain 30 pounds before being considered big and muscular. Ft or not, you do need to have the adequate amount of muscle to generate the right amount of power, of course your ratio will change what amount of muscle is efficient for you, but in no sense would 135 lbs at 5,11 ever be efficient for a sprinter.

Another point I’d like to bring up is that fast twitch muscle usually appears more bulky and someone more fast twitch based will be naturally bigger. You can look at Nico young and his build and see that he is slow twitch based.

I agree with your assessment of Young (I don't think he got lots of speed), but obviously there would never be a sprinter with 18.8 BMI, but we are comparing him to other middle-distance runners.

Lewandowski has run 10.5 fly for the 100m which is a lot faster than Willis (11.1), Ingebrigtsen (~11.3, guessing) and almost all other elite milers. Makloufhi can probably compete with him. Lewandowski only has 19.8 BMI, which is skinny and yet he got great speed (47s 400m). So IF Young actually would have a lot of FT fibers, which I don't think he has, he should be able to get down to 48s 400m with his 18.8 BMI. I think the reason he is nowhere near these times is not him being skinny, but him just having way more ST fibers % than an elite miler.

Now Makloufhi, one miler that could potentially compete with Lewandowski in a sprint finish, is a massive guy. Two totally different body types/BMI's, but both are very fast-twitch in their main event (Lewandowski was not considered fast in the 800m tho, and the weight might have contributed to that, but if he could just gain a few lbs and be faster he would have done that).

I highly doubt Grant Fisher was as 400m fast as you just stated. Which one? Was Grant Fisher a high school 48.xx 400m lad or was grant Fisher a 49.xx 400m lad? You tend to exaggerate. Please provide evidence. When we discuss someone's 400m speed, F.A.T. 400m speed is implied. Is it possible Grant Fisher split 49.8 of 49.9 on a relay leg? Yes. that would have been possible. Stating Grant Fisher was a 48 or 49 400m lad in high school is not exactly accurate.

Grant Fisher ran a 3:59 mile in high school and that takes some serious speed! Compare his PRs with Nico:

Fisher

3:57 1600 (en route to 3:59 mile)

8:43 2 Mile

Young

4:07 1600

8:40 3200

As you can see Fisher’s speed at the mile is tremendously faster. My guess is he could have ran a 48 second relay split.

Sub 4:10 Mile wrote:

Grant Fisher ran a 3:59 mile in high school and that takes some serious speed! Compare his PRs with Nico:

Fisher

3:57 1600 (en route to 3:59 mile)

8:43 2 Mile

Young

4:07 1600

8:40 3200

As you can see Fisher’s speed at the mile is tremendously faster. My guess is he could have ran a 48 second relay split.

Young can obviously run faster than 4:07 and would have been a threat to break 4:00 in the mile this year.

Sub 4:10 Mile wrote:

Grant Fisher ran a 3:59 mile in high school and that takes some serious speed! Compare his PRs with Nico:

Fisher

3:57 1600 (en route to 3:59 mile)

8:43 2 Mile

Young

4:07 1600

8:40 3200

As you can see Fisher’s speed at the mile is tremendously faster. My guess is he could have ran a 48 second relay split.

+1

Directly from his coach, after his XC season in his senior year in HS:

How talented is Grant Fisher? “I don’t know,” admits Scannell, who thinks his charge probably has 50-second 400m speed now. “Fifty is not fast. So if I can get Grant into the 48-point range this year, I’ll be happy. He’s just getting to the point where he can get fast. But that question really honestly can’t be answered until he’s 21. Then we can see that this is his speed, this is his aerobic capability, his biomechanics, his physiology. This is his cap. But right now, his progression has been like this”—he angles his arm upward—“there’s been no slowdown.”

He didn't use speed training with Fisher before, as he let soccer do that job for him. If he ever got him down to the 49s FAT range, I don't know, his 800m times were never good despite closing long races strong so it seems his basic speed is lacking and he did indeed not have sub 50 400m FAT ability.

I overestimated Fisher's speed a bit, but even if I did, he was still considerably faster than Young. If Fisher runs 3:57 off 50s 400m FAT speed, and Young only 4:07, I stand with my assessment that Young isn't faster than 52-53s FAT 400m.

Also, Fisher closed in 51.81 to win the 2017 Pac-12 1500 title - can Young close races in 51.8?

It doesn't say much about his FAT 400m speed, since it's the acceleration that mid/long-distance runners lose time on and not their max speed, but to me it's clear that Fisher is much faster than Young, independent of Fisher having 49s or 50s 400m FAT speed.

50.x split and 51.x open. No faster than that but possibly slower. I know a kid who broke 14 this year and can only run 55.

SDSU Aztec wrote:

Sub 4:10 Mile wrote:

Grant Fisher ran a 3:59 mile in high school and that takes some serious speed! Compare his PRs with Nico:

Fisher

3:57 1600 (en route to 3:59 mile)

8:43 2 Mile

Young

4:07 1600

8:40 3200

As you can see Fisher’s speed at the mile is tremendously faster. My guess is he could have ran a 48 second relay split.

Young can obviously run faster than 4:07 and would have been a threat to break 4:00 in the mile this year.

Keep in mind that the 4:07 Young ran was his season opening race his junior year of track. He only ran one high quality 1600/Mile that entire season.

As someone posted earlier, Young is an aerobic monster. Probably very similar physiologically to German Fernandez.

I watched German run in our league for 4 years. He ran many 4x4s and I don’t remember anything much faster than 52.x

CoachB wrote:

As someone posted earlier, Young is an aerobic monster. Probably very similar physiologically to German Fernandez.

I watched German run in our league for 4 years. He ran many 4x4s and I don’t remember anything much faster than 52.x

Nico’s coach said he closed a workout in 53sec and runs 25 secs for 200m no problem. He also said he could run 50sec no problem.

You guys analyze too much without actually knowing

Grant had his senior year to get those times

Also nico’s 3k is superior to both 3200s listed

His coach also makes a bunch of false claims about his own accomplishments and made some ridiculous predictions about Young. If the coach says 50, it is 52.

Sub 4:10 Mile wrote:

Grant Fisher ran a 3:59 mile in high school and that takes some serious speed! Compare his PRs with Nico:

Fisher

3:57 1600 (en route to 3:59 mile)

8:43 2 Mile

Young

4:07 1600

8:40 3200

As you can see Fisher’s speed at the mile is tremendously faster. My guess is he could have ran a 48 second relay split.

You most likely guessed wrong. Sub-49 400m speed is rare for 5000m athletes. It is rare for 5000m athletes to have sub-49 speed under any condition, a TT with a rolling start, a relay split. Many or most 5000m guys with sub-49 400m speed are 30 plus year old former 800/1500 guys like John Walker, Steve Ovett, Thomas Wessinghage or Jim Spivey. I only know of two legit sub-49/sub-13:15 400m/5000m guys, Miruts Yifter & Thomas Wessinghage. You do know there are sub-1:44 800m guys who have never broken 48 for 400m. If Fisher thought he had that kind of speed, Fisher would have been a 800/1500/one mile guy in high school and college. Fisher never would have bothered with 3200m in high school or 5000m in college with 48.xx 400m speed. See my post regarding Steve Holman. When a high school coach knows he has a sub-49 400m guy, he is most likely one of two fastest 400m guys on 4 x 400m relay.

You can tell which posters never ran faster than a 58 400...

Anyone who thinks he’s in the 52-53 range is moronic.

He’s an all-time H.S. great. I don’t care if he’s an “endurance beast”, he can easily break 50.

600yd/600m man wrote:

I only know of two legit sub-49/sub-13:15 400m/5000m guys, Miruts Yifter & Thomas Wessinghage. You do know there are sub-1:44 800m guys who have never broken 48 for 400m.

I would bet Webb was a sub-49 guy at some point, and he ran 13:10 or so. Did a quick google search and found a thread recounting his triple at the district meet in high school (all within 80 minutes): 1600 in 4:06 (splitting 2:14/1:52), 400 in 49.29, 800 in 1:49.

Not sure about Centrowitz, but I bet he'd be close to sub 49 as well.

runthecountry wrote:

600yd/600m man wrote:

I only know of two legit sub-49/sub-13:15 400m/5000m guys, Miruts Yifter & Thomas Wessinghage. You do know there are sub-1:44 800m guys who have never broken 48 for 400m.

I would bet Webb was a sub-49 guy at some point, and he ran 13:10 or so. Did a quick google search and found a thread recounting his triple at the district meet in high school (all within 80 minutes): 1600 in 4:06 (splitting 2:14/1:52), 400 in 49.29, 800 in 1:49.

https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=6622858

Not sure about Centrowitz, but I bet he'd be close to sub 49 as well.

Add Alan Webb to the list. I overlooked him. Any man with a sub-1:44 800m, for argument sake, I will consider a sub-49 400m man. Centro does not have a sub-1:44 but he held of Makhloufi, so fast enough. My point: most high school lads in that 3:59 to 4:09 range are not sub-49 400m guys unless their T&F coach features them on 4 x 400m relay team as was Steve Holman.

Well, if you want to know his speed, just show up at one of the GROUP workouts he has done this month with Mira Costa, among others, and see for yourself. I'm sure it's impressive. Shame on the coaches from both schools.

u mad

Lagat, Farah, and Bekele all closed 5000s in 49-50-51. Pretty sure Aouita and Geb could have done that, too. Not sure if by "legit" you mean that they were actually timed at sub-49 for a legal 400, but I think these guys and probably others could have run 48.9 open.