I was running with a buddy today and we got in to a debate over how fast Nico Young could run a 400 relay splits. My friend was convinced he could pop a 48 but I really think he could only run a mid 51 or just under. My thoughts were he is an aerobic machine, he’s super dominant at 5K XC and his 8:40 is much better than his 4:07 mile PR. You see a lot of elite high schoolers run 4:08 or faster but hardly any run 8:48-8:40.
Thoughts?
What is his 800m PR? if it not sub 1:55 then no way he can split 48 on 400.
on a good he could prob pull off a 50-51
He said he wanted to run the 800 for real this year, we’ll never get to know
49 or 50
A decently conditioned HS runner
I600 is = 4.8x the 400 split capability
I don’t think he ever ran an 800 last year. I think his PR to date is still 2:06 but he obviously could run way faster.
His coach said something on the LRC podcast about finishing a workout of quarters in 53. Take that what you will.
51-52
Dude is nowhere close to 48.
By that logic if his 1600 is 4:07 then he can only run 51 in the 400
4x60+7= 247
247/4.8= 51.46
Sub 4:10 Mile wrote:
I don’t think he ever ran an 800 last year. I think his PR to date is still 2:06 but he obviously could run way faster.
If he's at his peak, he could run close to 4×2:06 with no rest.
Any word on his status? Is he doing his normal training?
As I said, he could obviously run wayyy faster than 2:06, but that is his official PR set his sophomore year of high school.
I haven’t heard anything about how he’s doing through all of this. I’m guessing we won’t see any Tempo Sport documentaries of him crushing workouts anytime soon.
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He’s super skinny! Obviously has good turnover and endurance but he doesn’t look like he has enough power to go under 50. I’d guess open he’d run 51.5 and maybe under 51 in a relay.
The fastest I’ve ever closed a 400 repeat workout in was a 57.something. My PR is a 54.2 open and a 52.9 relay.
CopperRunner wrote:
He’s super skinny! Obviously has good turnover and endurance but he doesn’t look like he has enough power to go under 50. I’d guess open he’d run 51.5 and maybe under 51 in a relay.
The fastest I’ve ever closed a 400 repeat workout in was a 57.something. My PR is a 54.2 open and a 52.9 relay.
Please stop thinking that all sprinters are big and muscular. Many guys have already proven that it's more about ratio of FT to ST fibers than of size of muscles and weight.
Jeremy Wariner (20.19 200m) and Chris Lemaitre (19.80 200m) are both very skinny and blazing fast.
For Young's case, he got no top-end speed I would be surprised if he could even break 51. More likely he can run around 52.0 in a 400m FAT at best (he might be able to get it down to 49/50 which would be on the level of Jakob Ingebrigtsen). His speed endurance is excellent, so he can close workouts close to his maximum ability (he has also done some really fast 1k reps at the end of big workouts).
48 400m speed like OP's friend is suggesting is dreaming. Once Young gets to college it will be easy to compare his speed with others, since he won't be able to outrun everyone else anymore and his kick/speed will finally start mattering.
Why aren't we seeing workout videos of him or other people? I expected to be bombarded on milesplit and flotrack.
Wariner 154. Young 134. Wariner would look like a monster next to Young.
younger Nic wrote:
Wariner 154. Young 134. Wariner would look like a monster next to Young.
Young is 5'11" and 135 lbs.
Wariner is 6'0" and 154 lbs.
Wariner has a BMI of 20.9. Trust me, that's not much and what many middle-distance and long-distance runners have. Yet he is a full speed guy.
Young has a BMI of 18.8. That's extremely skinny even for a distance runner. Even Ingebrigtsen and Lopez Lomong and other ~5k runners would look big next to Young.
But what I wanted to say is speed is not all about body shape and BMI. Wariner's BMI of 20.9 is ridiculously low for someone blazing fast in 200m and 400m (most 200m sprinters are more like 24.5 even Bolt is that heavy). So despite being skinny FOR a sprinter, he is super fast.
The same COULD be true for Young (I don't think it is, just saying technically) - he could be a skinny distance runner, but with lots of fast-twitch fibers and basic speed. Lewandowski is not big and is crazy fast in 1500m races, he could probably even outkick Cheriyot himself in a slow, tactical race. And despite similar BMI as Ingebrigtsen, he is a LOT quicker than the young Norwegian.
If he hopes to be competitive as a collegiate or pro runner, he better get that 400 down to 49 or faster.
Diamond league 5000s usually close in 51-53 for the final 400. If that’s his open PR, he’s gonna get smoked.
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
CopperRunner wrote:
He’s super skinny! Obviously has good turnover and endurance but he doesn’t look like he has enough power to go under 50. I’d guess open he’d run 51.5 and maybe under 51 in a relay.
The fastest I’ve ever closed a 400 repeat workout in was a 57.something. My PR is a 54.2 open and a 52.9 relay.
Please stop thinking that all sprinters are big and muscular. Many guys have already proven that it's more about ratio of FT to ST fibers than of size of muscles and weight.
Jeremy Wariner (20.19 200m) and Chris Lemaitre (19.80 200m) are both very skinny and blazing fast.
For Young's case, he got no top-end speed I would be surprised if he could even break 51. More likely he can run around 52.0 in a 400m FAT at best (he might be able to get it down to 49/50 which would be on the level of Jakob Ingebrigtsen). His speed endurance is excellent, so he can close workouts close to his maximum ability (he has also done some really fast 1k reps at the end of big workouts).
48 400m speed like OP's friend is suggesting is dreaming. Once Young gets to college it will be easy to compare his speed with others, since he won't be able to outrun everyone else anymore and his kick/speed will finally start mattering.
What makes you think Young got no top-end speed. No 400 PR is listed for him and he's never run a serious 800. He played the role of a kicker against Sprout last year at Arcadia.
LV had a similar range as Young has. Does anyone know what his 400 speed was?
Sub 4:10 Mile wrote:
I was running with a buddy today and we got in to a debate over how fast Nico Young could run a 400 relay splits. My friend was convinced he could pop a 48 but I really think he could only run a mid 51 or just under. My thoughts were he is an aerobic machine, he’s super dominant at 5K XC and his 8:40 is much better than his 4:07 mile PR. You see a lot of elite high schoolers run 4:08 or faster but hardly any run 8:48-8:40.
Thoughts?
No way for N Young to be a sub-50 FAT 400m person today. Think back to Steve Holman. There is a reason Steve Holman never broke 10 minutes for 3200m in high school. In most U.S. high school T&F meets, the final two events are 3200m followed immediately by 4 x 400m relay. Steve Holman last raced 3200m sometime in 10th grade. Richfield Senior High School needed Holman on 4 x 400m relay. If Nico Young were a F.A.T. sub-50 400m person, Young would race 800m & 1600m and 4 x 400m relay as did Steve Holman.
At a certain point, muscle mass definitely does matter over ft/st. I in no area said sprinters have to be big and muscular. On the other hand, I’d say Nico would have to gain 30 pounds before being considered big and muscular. Ft or not, you do need to have the adequate amount of muscle to generate the right amount of power, of course your ratio will change what amount of muscle is efficient for you, but in no sense would 135 lbs at 5,11 ever be efficient for a sprinter.
Another point I’d like to bring up is that fast twitch muscle usually appears more bulky and someone more fast twitch based will be naturally bigger. You can look at Nico young and his build and see that he is slow twitch based.