Italy - 2 Weeks Post Total Lockdown & A record Number Of Deaths

sp2 wrote:

Stick around a little while, Buddy. You will soon be proven every *bit* as stunningly stupid and full of sh*t on this issue as you already have been on everything else you've said about, well, pretty much anything.

And then, once again, you'll learn *nothing* from the experience. Because that's who you are.

Bye now.

Testing is very limited. Even here in Germany people queue up for testing and are sent home after hours without any test. Meanwhile they probably infected others who were waiting at the same time.

Now whereas deaths are almost always recorded everywhere, the number of total cases is strongly dependent on numbers of testing. High numbers of tests = high numbers of positive tests = low relative number of deaths. Guess what, they even estimated that the total numbers of infected people might still be ten times higher than positive tests, even here in high testing Germany. That means death rate might really be more like 0.02% instead of the 0.2% observed over here.

Moreover we have one if the best health systems over here, whereas the US of A is likely more comparable to Italy where dozens of people die untreated on hospital floors and in tents, so be prepared, and good luck.

Funny, up until now, Italy had one of the most highly regarded health care systems in the world:

https://gazettereview.com/2016/04/countries-with-the-best-health-care/

Socialized medicine for all is the solution, right?

Renato Canova wrote:

The main problem was that a lot of Young people considered the virus as a normal flu, and didn't follow the rule that the Gov. put for the Emergency. Too many were stupid, like a lot of posters in LR comparing the effects of Corona with the number of car accidents (like every person having a car accident could infect other 3 people every time).

People not understanding the difference between accidents or personal diseases not infecting other people (like cancer) and the development of a global infection are the worst enemies in this case.

There is a balance between panic and lack of fright, both the situations are very dangerous when we have to face every type of problem.

You are indeed nailing the social dimension problem on it's head. However, an expecation for society to conform to rules, in rapid transition, without context in short memory or experience is a flatulent one.

I currently reside at the border of Baden-Wurttemberg/Bavaria, work in the medical biotech and have several ties in the relevant medical fields. In a manner in which a small town in Italy has shown to have the majority of its population to be carriers of COVID-19 (link below), yet in countback be asymptomatic, there may be benefit to assume for this to be case in all current new-case hotpots in Europe (and US) within the next week. That is to say, rather than communicating that small subsets of individuals are infected in turn signalling the low relative number of those infected the general population, the public message should (or not) change to the degree in which the majority of a given population are considered as active virus carriers. The weight upon the individual psyche from the first message is limited freedom whereas in comparison, the second gauges the potential (negative) impact of the individual to the society. Indeed, accurate dissemination for the latter is required as to not to induce fire but for many adults, emotionally mature and not averse to responsibility (moral, ethical, your call), to employ this assumption as an active framework to conduct your daily life becomes the next logical extension. Nevertheless, the number of the opposite, the panic inducing takeaway, is likely to be a lot more prominent.

In short, for individuals living in transmission hot-spots in which rate of new cases is increasing, and for those with significant confirmed cases already, for the love of yourself, your family and your neighbors, act in the manner in which you see yourself as the carrier of the virus (completely asymptomatic) from this moment on. That being said, you can still live quasi-normal lives - spend time in nature whilst travelling there without touching a single public surface, practicing good hygiene and social distancing with a safety net far higher than those exposed by national and international health authorities. Notwithstanding, all of these measures can be employed in their entirety whilst helping out in your local community, be it may for individuals at risk, aiding crippling businesses or supporting those working on the front-lines.

Don't wait to act until a positive case impacts a person you know or love, to make it seem real to you.

CoronaCurious wrote:

It's now over two weeks since total shut down in Italy and today they had a record number of deaths. I guess the 14 days of self isolation plan the Western World is implementing and pinning all it's hopes on isn't working / going to work.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51952712

What's the next idea?

BBC is the definition of fake news.

If you're really interested in Italy, talk with a friend there who is not an idiot.

Italy is pulling the plug on old people that catch it.

They're cleaning out the old people.

social medicine or social anything works, until they run out of money.

the problem is socialist governments keep growing, and taxing the economy to the point where private sector collapses, from nationalism and over taxation, benefits, regulations.

resulting in a venezuela situation with starvation in every situation.

the failure is 100%

in venezuela your retirement check for a life's pay in is like $20, after hyper inflation.

you don't believe it. but after like 30 minutes of googling it, the reality will set in.

you want a strong private sector to milk for your social programs, but cap it, so you don't kill the golden goose.

remember, goverments turn into self serving moronic groups always,

so you cut to cull the gov, and not cull the smart guys in the private sector that lay all the golden eggs for everybody.

such is the moronic state of affairs that what I said is not like a billion percent obvius.

such is the barinwashing.

google starvation

ussr

china

venezuela

korea

cambodia

burma

yemen

mongolia

plus every former ussr republic

moderates suck wrote:

Pretty horrifying from Italy:

https://slate.com/technology/2020/03/coronavirus-covid19-italy-hospital-deaths-us-warning.html

It's not getting worse in *Japan* - a country that did not do a lockdown:

"Unlike China’s draconian isolation measures, the mass quarantine in much of Europe and big U.S. cities ordering people to shelter in place, Japan has imposed no lockdown. While there have been disruptions caused by school closures, life continues as normal for much of the population. Tokyo rush hour trains are still packed and restaurants remain open."

Wrong link - here's the correct one:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-19/a-coronavirus-explosion-was-expected-in-japan-where-is-it

"Unlike China’s draconian isolation measures, the mass quarantine in much of Europe and big U.S. cities ordering people to shelter in place, Japan has imposed no lockdown. While there have been disruptions caused by school closures, life continues as normal for much of the population. Tokyo rush hour trains are still packed and restaurants remain open."

Saxon wrote:

Wrong link - here's the correct one:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bloomberg.com/amp/news/articles/2020-03-19/a-coronavirus-explosion-was-expected-in-japan-where-is-it

"Unlike China’s draconian isolation measures, the mass quarantine in much of Europe and big U.S. cities ordering people to shelter in place, Japan has imposed no lockdown. While there have been disruptions caused by school closures, life continues as normal for much of the population. Tokyo rush hour trains are still packed and restaurants remain open."

unsurprisingly, its not killing droves in a place where running is a serious sport and the population is healthy. Unhealthy people are at risk, hopefully when this is all over, everyone goes out of their way to become and stay healthy. I suggest we allow all employees two hours of paid exercise during the work day. Companies that pressure employees not to take the exercise time should be heavily fined.

In Norway we can still track 2/3 of all positive tests back to mostly Austria and Italy

I'm not gonna bother reading this entire thread but truly you must be a moron. It's called lag time.

People don't drop dead the moment they get corona... the current infection rates are those who've contracted the virus before the lock down is in place (incubation up to 28 days) and those quarantined passing it to family members.

There is already signs the increase is beginning to level off, and epidemiologists are predicting the peak to come somewhere around the 25th March, once that inflection point is reached you will see cases drop (although not necessary death rate).

Look to China for evidence that lock down works, but it only works if everyone abides by it. Recently arrived experts from China to Italy is already saying the lockdown is not strict enough, ie, public transport are still operating, and the Italian police have issued over 40,000 fines over violations of quarantine.

ContextSetter wrote:

People don't drop dead the moment they get corona... the current infection rates are those who've contracted the virus before the lock down is in place (incubation up to 28 days) and those quarantined passing it to family members.

There is already signs the increase is beginning to level off, and epidemiologists are predicting the peak to come somewhere around the 25th March, once that inflection point is reached you will see cases drop (although not necessary death rate).

Look to China for evidence that lock down works, but it only works if everyone abides by it. Recently arrived experts from China to Italy is already saying the lockdown is not strict enough, ie, public transport are still operating, and the Italian police have issued over 40,000 fines over violations of quarantine.

what constitutes a violation of quarantine?

Bad Wigins wrote:

help help wrote:

Germany’s numbers aren’t that low. 90% of their cases have come in the last 5 days. Deaths lag.

Mortal blow to your "lag" argument: which other country had only 43 deaths when it reached 14,400 cases? Italy's case load got there just as suddenly, so did Spain. No, just tell it like it is: The Italians are testing people likely to die, and the Germans are testing more widely. So there will be less "lag" for the Germans.

Your ignorance is showing here like it has on every other thread. Please do me a favor. Point me to a thread where something you've said has been proven by a fact. Happy to see it.

Germany:

3/13 - 930

3/14 - 924

3/15 - 1,214

3/16 - 1,459

3/17 - 2,095

3/18 - 2,960

3/19 - 2,993

German's first tracked case was 3/1 and first death was 3/9.

Germany has 44 total deaths.. 16 of them coming YESTERDAY.

It's like the deaths by day will keep growing. 20-30-40-100, etc.

Japanese have excellent hygiene standards. A good percentage of them were already wearing face masks before this pandemic broke out in Wuhan. Nobody sneezes or coughs on those packed metro trains without covering themselves.

Chinese on the other hand. I don't think they even understand the concept of a handkerchief. Do you think people who eat live bats at crowded markets or skin and boil dogs alive care about sneezing and coughing?

Spanish have the worst hygiene standards in Europe. Last time I was in Madrid I walked out of a McDonalds when I saw the woman at the counter sneeze into the cloth she was wiping the surface with and then continue wiping.

Kvothe wrote:

what constitutes a violation of quarantine?

being outside without a valid reason, you are only supposed to be outside to get food / medical supplies / travel to work / seek medical care.

help help wrote:

Bad Wigins wrote:

Mortal blow to your "lag" argument: which other country had only 43 deaths when it reached 14,400 cases? Italy's case load got there just as suddenly, so did Spain. No, just tell it like it is: The Italians are testing people likely to die, and the Germans are testing more widely. So there will be less "lag" for the Germans.

Your ignorance is showing here like it has on every other thread. Please do me a favor. Point me to a thread where something you've said has been proven by a fact. Happy to see it.

Germany:

3/13 - 930

3/14 - 924

3/15 - 1,214

3/16 - 1,459

3/17 - 2,095

3/18 - 2,960

3/19 - 2,993

German's first tracked case was 3/1 and first death was 3/9.

Germany has 44 total deaths.. 16 of them coming YESTERDAY.

It's like the deaths by day will keep growing. 20-30-40-100, etc.

I pointed yesterday how what looks like a .2% death rate could be much higher than that because deaths lag infections.

I'd like to see the German new case # for today. The key is stop the growth in new cases. The exponential growth needs to stop. Is there anywebsite that has a graph of cases by country by day?

Coevett wrote:

Japanese have excellent hygiene standards. A good percentage of them were already wearing face masks before this pandemic broke out in Wuhan. Nobody sneezes or coughs on those packed metro trains without covering themselves.

Chinese on the other hand. I don't think they even understand the concept of a handkerchief. Do you think people who eat live bats at crowded markets or skin and boil dogs alive care about sneezing and coughing?

Spanish have the worst hygiene standards in Europe. Last time I was in Madrid I walked out of a McDonalds when I saw the woman at the counter sneeze into the cloth she was wiping the surface with and then continue wiping.

A word on British hygiene standards, please?