Irresponsible misinformation
Irresponsible misinformation
LoneStarXC wrote:
Kvothe wrote:
Marcus is a twat. I've got a may marathon and a busy work schedule next fall Will continue putting in the effort for it, until its cancelled, at which point I'll pick a summer race.
Your May marathon is going to be cancelled.
Looks like there are back ups I can pick in Alaska and Hawaii. If those get cancelled too, or if flying seems dangerous there is san fran in july. If that is cancelled too and I can't find something in flagstaff, mammoth, etc. then ya, I won't run a marathon in this cycle.
I think the one thing that can unite Letsrun as a community is agreeing Marcus Jonathon is quack coach.
He’s not wrong, but who is this guy?
is it still okay to run outside in an open area with minimal number of people? jogging is still okay, right? just no intervals and tempo runs, right?
LateRunnerPhil wrote:
The Ghost of Ryan Deak wrote:
Suppressed immune system = overtraining
This is really basic and JMar doesn't even get it.
Nope, it's not as simple as that. One single race or hard workouts with very high lactate production already significantly weakens and suppresses the immune system.
Risk of getting sick is highest after a hard, anaerobic track session and after races. Overtraining, for example doing too much during a training camp, is another reason for a weakened immune system, but not the one JMar was talking about.
When you train with lactate levels in the 8-15+ mmol range (5k pace and faster), and do a decent amount of volume with it, your body needs to work very hard to recover from the insane stress you put on it. You broke down most of the glycogen stores in your body and a lot of muscle tissue. Lots of good stuff about this in Magness's book, Science of Running with many scientific sources.
I agree he was not good on the definition - a long run on a moderate pace or containing MP segments could also suppress the immune system, even tho that's down with lactate levels between 2.0 and 3.0.
I don't want to see anyone hammering hard VO2MAX or anaerobic intervals, such as 5x1k@3k pace or 10x400 @mile pace with just 1 minute race. You might not be the one dieing from getting the virus, but you are supposed to protect the people around you and getting the virus because you weakened your immune system due to the "balls to the wall" track session is immature.
how are people suppose to run good times if they cant train child? you are just promoting drugs at this point
What's irresponsible misinformation mcvred?
Training hard weakens your immune system. For JS to spread the notion that the *Right* training does not do this is irresponsible given present circumstances
Han Solo wrote:
The plan: get all other professional runners to stop training so my athletes can finally catch up and stop being lapped at races!
-JMAR
Exactly!
mcvred wrote:
Training hard weakens your immune system. For JS to spread the notion that the *Right* training does not do this is irresponsible given present circumstances
JS is absolutely correct! And you and Marcus are not!
As an example a workout 10 by 400s will not effect the immune system to some degree if you compare with e.g a marathon race.
I dont agree. Training hard doesn t have any sense. We need to train well. Of course now we cant do a plan saying ok 6 weeks time or 4 weeks time or 12 weeks time we have an important race so we follow a plan to peak for that race. But this is true especially for topelite runners those one like Kipchoge that do only two big Marathon in a year. I would like to know how they will change their program now that there s not London Marathon. Talking about runners that do many races in a year is different.
We need to train, to mantain what has been build till now or even keep on growing in our fitness and shape.
1) Springtime is coming, so the bad season is near to end. I want to be optimist the best way I can
and I think that when the new green leaves will appear on the trees, also the Covid-19 will end.
2) This to say that now is a great time to train probably the best, togheter with autumn , I mean day will be longer, more sun more vitamin D3 production , Testosterone will increase,
temperature is good for training we are going to meet the condition that they have in Kenya , except of course for the altitude.
3) So the train to me is to not only trying to mantain what has been build but also keep on builds quality, if we were for example in a a 3 weeks block working on LT I will keep on working for others 3 or 4 weeks. And this way of training will make me ready for any race will come. Maybe may or June
I mean I want to be ready, and optimistic if there will not be a race then I will be in good shape
and is better than stay one months or to months without any plan or not train at all.
4) I dont believe a good training will affect the immune system, especially now that we are going to leave the cold season (and I hope also the Flu) behind.
5) Training alone ( we need to keep social distance) is also a good way to not take any virus or cold. And bonus here in Italy with this Quarantine and block of the cities the quality of the air is much better than before. Staying at home we avoid to spread the Covid-19 but also if our cars dont move the air of our town is much better.
Corona,corona wrote:
mcvred wrote:
Training hard weakens your immune system. For JS to spread the notion that the *Right* training does not do this is irresponsible given present circumstances
JS is absolutely correct! And you and Marcus are not!
As an example a workout 10 by 400s will not effect the immune system to some degree if you compare with e.g a marathon race.
Depending on the speed and rest, the lactate levels in that workouts will be substantially higher than in a marathon. Do 10x400 at 10k pace with 1-2 min rest, yes that's nothing. Do 10x400 at Mile pace with 1 min rest, and you will significantly weaken the immune system and create the so called "open-window effect", that's an extremely hard session. Lactate will be ~15 and higher during that session, depending on the number of FT fibers in the athlete and his lactate tolerance.
Depending on the speed and rest, the lactate levels in that workouts will be substantially higher than in a marathon. Do 10x400 at 10k pace with 1-2 min rest, yes that's nothing. Do 10x400 at Mile pace with 1 min rest, and you will significantly weaken the immune system and create the so called "open-window effect", that's an extremely hard session. Lactate will be ~15 and higher during that session, depending on the number of FT fibers in the athlete and his lactate tolerance.
if this was a response to 800 dude, you're missing the point - you can certainly create higher lactate levels by doing a hard (and it should be said, very hard, way harder than someone would normally do in a standard training block with no immediate races on the horizon unless your name is Jim Ryun) workout. But 800 dude is right - it's a combination. You don't obtain as high of lactate levels in a marathon, yet it compromises your immune system to a much larger degree than probably any single workout - and there's plenty of research on the effects of marathons on the immune system (I'm not aware of any attempting to connect a direct causal link to something as specific as simply lactate levels in a simple workout). So the fact that a marathon impacts the immune system to such a measurable degree shows that it's not about lactate levels. And again, while I'd like to stress that while it's possible for some to run themselves into the ground to the level you describe (and impossible for a large chunk of even the avid running community, myself included), it's highly unlikely anyone would be doing something that drastic right now.
Han Solo wrote:
The plan: get all other professional runners to stop training so my athletes can finally catch up and stop being lapped at races!
-JMAR
Han Solo this is the only smart this you have ever said
Just did a 5 mile lactate threshold run this morning.
SUPERIOR COACH JS wrote:
A lot of misinformation is easily disseminated in these major virus outbreaks. That runners
could help the situation by not doing anaerobic sessions and so on is just an example of this misleading information coming out. The problem with covid-19 as a new virus ( corona virus) is that there are no vaccine( and not a lot of people who have got immune last season) and therefore no immune people in the chain of infection . So far we know for sure that covid-19 is mostly dangerous for older people / people with already compromised immune systems and other complicating diseases.And that situation is the same as every year when the seasonal flu comes, except that there is so far no vaccine to protect these risk groups against covid-19.
no vaccine isn't "the problem" either. Even with the vaccines, flu spreads faster and kills more people than covid-19. The thing scaring people about covid is wild speculation about the per-case death rate, fueled by conflating the number of confirmed cases with the true number of infected people.
Don't blame Lactate wrote:
Depending on the speed and rest, the lactate levels in that workouts will be substantially higher than in a marathon. Do 10x400 at 10k pace with 1-2 min rest, yes that's nothing. Do 10x400 at Mile pace with 1 min rest, and you will significantly weaken the immune system and create the so called "open-window effect", that's an extremely hard session. Lactate will be ~15 and higher during that session, depending on the number of FT fibers in the athlete and his lactate tolerance.
if this was a response to 800 dude, you're missing the point - you can certainly create higher lactate levels by doing a hard (and it should be said, very hard, way harder than someone would normally do in a standard training block with no immediate races on the horizon unless your name is Jim Ryun) workout. But 800 dude is right - it's a combination. You don't obtain as high of lactate levels in a marathon, yet it compromises your immune system to a much larger degree than probably any single workout - and there's plenty of research on the effects of marathons on the immune system (I'm not aware of any attempting to connect a direct causal link to something as specific as simply lactate levels in a simple workout). So the fact that a marathon impacts the immune system to such a measurable degree shows that it's not about lactate levels. And again, while I'd like to stress that while it's possible for some to run themselves into the ground to the level you describe (and impossible for a large chunk of even the avid running community, myself included), it's highly unlikely anyone would be doing something that drastic right now.
This how LRP revealed he never ran in high school or in college. We ran those sessions year round, especially those of us who came into the season in relatively poor shape. We hardly ever got sick when the rest of our classmates were far more often sick. Between racing and hard sessions, we should have been as susceptible to infection as anyone else, if not moreso, if this study really bore out in the real world. Overtraining will get you there, certainly, but not a weekly session well within the bounds of normal high level training.
pseudocoach) wrote:
https://twitter.com/rowBerry/status/1239000730410893312?s=20The chad Rowberry vs the virgin jmar
I am an exercise physiologist and I would have to side with Tim on this topic. But still practice social distancing so get this training done solo and take care of your body.
anacondarunner wrote:
Discus.
https://twitter.com/jmarpdx/status/1238940697727647744
WHO?
As someone who is in the masters arena, I have to say I agree with Tim Rowburry. Get your rest, eat right, and train hard on hard days. I haven’t even had a cold in 7 years following this recipe ....not likely that Covid-19 is going to take me down...and has nothing to do with whether I carry it and spread it to others. I would first have to be exposed to it.