zzzz wrote:
There is room for good downhillers (like Walmsley) to run closer to that blue line (equal-energy model).
Findmymarathon.com’s converter gives it a +1:44 compared to a 2:10 flat marathon and +2:10 for a 2:25 on a flat course.
Timeline of events wrote:
lmb wrote:
I keep hearing that JK is a genius, agreat coach etc. Exactly who has he coached aside from WeJo? What teams? My college coached(Gags) has coached multiple Olympians and too many all americans to count, but we do not call him a genius. What are JKs credentials?
They anointed him a genius when he surmised that the Boston times were going to be fast the year the runners had a hurricane at their back. As if nobody else saw that coming.
Sarcasm font wrote:
not even a hobby jogger wrote:
I love this analysis...I plotted this out for my wife using her training paces before Boston last year (another course with lots of rolling hills...albeit it more downhill than up). She is a super-responder to downhill running (most runners are not). I ended up with 2.9 seconds lost (not far from the 2.4 used in this article) per 10 feet of elevation gain but 3.1 seconds gained per 10 feet of elevation loss. I used these numbers to create a band for the Boston course and she pretty much nailed it without even looking at the band or watch. I have witnessed MANY runners....both average and good...that simply can not run down hills to their advantage. So the analysis here of 2.4 lost and only 1.8 gained does not surprise me at all. It will be interesting to see if there are runners in the field that can take advantage of the downhills to milk small amounts of time off their competitors.
If your wife loses 2.9 seconds per 10 feet of uphill, but gains 3.1 seconds per 10 feet of downhill, she should just find an absolutely crazy hilly course and set massive PRs.
She should run a full 26 minutes faster on the Pike's Peak marathon than she would on a flat course, with its 7800 feet each of uphill and downhill.
If we can find a faster marathon, she could do even better! Your wife is probably the only person who gets faster as the course gets tougher! If we find a hilly enough course, she could set the world record!
To drop an hour off of her flat course marathon using your calculations, she would need a course with 18,000 feet of uphill and downhill. That is an average slop of 25%. That sounds really high, but there are some backroads with slopes that high, it isnt just limited to paths. So just find a nice mile long stretch of road with an average of 25% grade and create a course that goes up and down it 13 times. If your wife's PR is under 3 hours, she could be the first woman to run under 2 hours! Suck it Kipchoge!
I like the idea of a challenging course but the question I would like to know is it similar to what the Olympic course is like? The hills and the turns to me mean that the super smooth efficient runner may find this course too tough. The strength based runners will have an advantage. I would imagine everyone has prepared but I do think that there will be some surprises on this course.[/quote]
I’m curious about the Olympic course profile as well. This course is definitely going to even out the playing field and minimize the advantage of the fastest, most efficient runners. Walmsley, for example, will benefit heavily on a course like this vs. a Bonneville Salt Flats course against guys like Rupp.
Walmsley will not benefit from the up or downhills. These 1400ft measures every single mole hill. Most of it will hardly be noticeable.
Overall it will be a little slower course but Walmsely will have no benefits because of that.
I gotta ask: has JK jumped the shark?
Rojo and JK (and Wejo for that matter) are very smart guys.
.....and in my experience with him and JK (training at Cornell) they knew/know running. Rojo also graduated with honors from Princeton I believe...which I think is also impressive... and a testament to his high IQ.
I could talk with JK about exercise science all day. He was a numbers/science guy and could rattle off all sorts of impressive data points....but they actually made sense and worked!
Rojo (also with JK as a side kick at Cornell) coached me to a 2:21 marathon and a 29:47 10km when I was 21 years old. I was a "no talent 4:28-mile hs recruit" that ended up being the Ivy League Champion at 10km in track and getting 2nd at Conference in Cross Country. Besides the OTQ I was also coached to making NCAAs in XC as an individual.
I give the most credit to the coaches that can turn runners like me (not a blue chip recruit or super talented guy) into being able to compete with guys that ran 9:10 or even sub 9:00 and sub 4:15 in hs. Not to mention he created the base that allowed me to run for Hansons right after college (and continue as a sponsored pro today!).
rojo wrote:
Timeline of events wrote:
lmb wrote:
I keep hearing that JK is a genius, agreat coach etc. Exactly who has he coached aside from WeJo? What teams? My college coached(Gags) has coached multiple Olympians and too many all americans to count, but we do not call him a genius. What are JKs credentials?
They anointed him a genius when he surmised that the Boston times were going to be fast the year the runners had a hurricane at their back. As if nobody else saw that coming.
No. We anointed him a genius long before that. We started this website because of that.
But, while you are trying to be sarcastic, the reality is no one else saw it coming like he did.
You either know running or you don’t. He knows it. Inside and out. Ask Chris Lear. He’s run under Wetmore and Kellogg. Jon got tired of giving out all of his wisdom on the Internet 15+ years ago. Then he helped me at Cornell.
I love Gags but why do I care how many Olympians or All Americans someone has coached? Is Holman a success or fail story?
The reality is you need big time talent to procue big time results. When Salazar had middle of the road talent, he was a middle of the road coach. Same thing with tinman before he got the pros, Scott Simmons before he go the Kenyans,, Wetmore at Seton Hall, etc. Well you really aren’t a middle of the road coach but people like you think they are.
A good coach a) has talent improve year after year b) peaks them when it matters most,. There are plenty of coaches who don’t do that. They throw eggs against a wall and a few superstars survive.
[/quote]
rojo wrote:
With over 700 Trials participants, I thought about making the following article the first pay per view article in LRC history, but decided to yet again give it away for free. When I ran the uphill/downhill, Las Vegas Marathon in 2000 trying to make the Trials, his hill analysis was spot on.
I live in and have ran in Atlanta basically my whole life, ATL is so hilly. Don't be surprised to see slow times all over the board. Rarely any flat sections in the entire course
Lighten up rojo, I was specifically referring to this "official" JK genius thread:
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=4006866
[quote]S. Canaday wrote:
Rojo and JK (and Wejo for that matter) are very smart guys.
.....and in my experience with him and JK (training at Cornell) they knew/know running. Rojo also graduated with honors from Princeton I believe...which I think is also impressive... and a testament to his high IQ.
Sage, where did you go to college again? I’ve never heard of it?
Not a good look
Mayor of Edmonton wrote:
[quote]S. Canaday wrote:
Rojo and JK (and Wejo for that matter) are very smart guys.
.....and in my experience with him and JK (training at Cornell) they knew/know running. Rojo also graduated with honors from Princeton I believe...which I think is also impressive... and a testament to his high IQ.
Sage, where did you go to college again? I’ve never heard of it?
Not a good look
John - its time to get out of the house and the basement. Go meet a girl. Time to do something productive
Mayor of Edmonton wrote:
[quote]S. Canaday wrote:
Rojo and JK (and Wejo for that matter) are very smart guys.
.....and in my experience with him and JK (training at Cornell) they knew/know running. Rojo also graduated with honors from Princeton I believe...which I think is also impressive... and a testament to his high IQ.
Sage, where did you go to college again? I’ve never heard of it?
Not a good look
Runner10287 wrote:
Mayor of Edmonton wrote:
[quote]S. Canaday wrote:
Rojo and JK (and Wejo for that matter) are very smart guys.
.....and in my experience with him and JK (training at Cornell) they knew/know running. Rojo also graduated with honors from Princeton I believe...which I think is also impressive... and a testament to his high IQ.
Sage, where did you go to college again? I’ve never heard of it?
Not a good look
https://i.redd.it/b1wa0twh01gz.jpg
Grand Canyon mule wrote:
Walmsley will not benefit from the up or downhills. These 1400ft measures every single mole hill. Most of it will hardly be noticeable.
Overall it will be a little slower course but Walmsely will have no benefits because of that.
Grand Canyon mule wrote:
Walmsley will not benefit from the up or downhills. These 1400ft measures every single mole hill. Most of it will hardly be noticeable.
Overall it will be a little slower course but Walmsely will have no benefits because of that.
Ivy League credentials aside (lets take that out of the equation).
I believe Rojo got a super high score on his SAT (much higher than mine).
The simple fact is that: if one scores very high on the SAT, then it means they can't have a low IQ.
Of course a low SAT score doesn't mean one has a low IQ (they could also still have a highIQ obvioulsy the test is biased)...its that a high SAT score reflects not having a low IQ. In my opinion Rojo has a very high IQ.
Tests/exams and college degrees simply show how you well can process information and problem solve though. Obviously they aren't the end all.
In the real world (outside side of "Book smarts" and back to what is relevant on this thread):
Rojo helped co-create the #1 running website in the world. I thought he was a very good coach in college. I thought JK was very, very knowledgeable about running . I used my progression as an example. They were both nice as people to me and seemed to genuinely care about our health, well being and long term running too.
S. Canaday wrote:
Rojo helped co-create the #1 running website in the world. I thought he was a very good coach in college. I thought JK was very, very knowledgeable about running . I used my progression as an example. They were both nice as people to me and seemed to genuinely care about our health, well being and long term running too.
