CJ Albertson workout: 27 miles "cruising" at 5:09 pace

forcerunner wrote:

The Nike pros use a HR sleeve, not just HR from watch.

Also looking at brogans 2:30 26.2 run, you have no idea just from a run summary what the actual workout was. It could be 13.1 slow, then 13.1 fast. A progression run. 1 min on 1mi off for 2:30. Too many possibilities from just a run summary stat.

Thankfully he's one of the other runners who posts most of his stuff!

Looks like lots of steady miles around 6ish pace early on, the 7 long "buildups" or something. Not quite a steady interval. Lots of hills and vert on the run. His instagram showed a pick of him running on snow covered dirt roads that day. As a fellow Iowan, I can say the rolling dirt roads are awesome to run on, and quite a bit more difficult that cruising on the pavement or bike paths or whatever.

Didn't Estrada or Vail (or both) have some very impressive long runs before the last OTs that didn't pan out so well for them? Something like 20 miles at 4:5x pace?

ThatAverageRunner wrote:

1) Brogan’s run was closer to 40 seconds per mile slower than his MP.

2) what a ridiculous comparison. Someone runs a long run over 26 miles within two minutes of their marathon PR and someone else runs their long run 20 minutes slower and you think the reason they both won’t make the team is because of their fast long runs? What a clown.

1) Fair point and I almost mentioned that but decided ~40 was close enough to 30 to make my point.

2) Yes, I think they both just left their race in that workout - less so Brogan given the slower relative pace. I do, however, wish them both the best of luck.

2a) I've never thought of myself as a clown, but I can dig it.

HardHard wrote:

Criticism <> hate.

right on... I like Brogan. That's why I even knew he did what he did the other day.

hrmoniterbroke wrote:

Parsec wrote:

Yea assuming accurate HR data, lol at the use of the word cruising. 180bpm avg is not cruising. Heck it wouldn't really be cruising with a 220 maxHR.

If that HR was more like 150 or 160...then I'd say different story.

Rupp ran 20 miles at 4:52 pace with his HR under 150 the whole time a few years ago in training.

I do not know anything about HR readings and training, except that watches almost never give accurate readings.

You can't compare a two time world medalist to a couple Strava runners. We all know Rupp is on another planet than CJ or Brogan.

C.J. is incredibly well read. He browses here a lot actually. He can go on and on about training and, yes, he is experimental. He doesn't prescribe to any one coach's "philosophy." He is not a "Daniels says this" guy or a "well, Renato doe this thing with his runners" type of dude. He has a utility belt full of workouts and has a firm grasp on what it takes to be successful and RACE ready. I think he will do just that.

If you can't tell, I really respect the guy. He is young, but Louie really thinks highly of him as well. He has the mind for running and will be an elite coach himself if he chooses to some day (after he proves he can be an elite runner). If you are reading this (I know you are), I enjoyed watching you clobber my runners over the head while you were at ASU. Lots of good battles both in the conference and since I left the conference. Go get them at the trials!!

Former Sub 14:00 wrote:

Aside from reed, most of you are all idiots. He will finish top 5. He will threaten for a team if not outright make it. Quote this. Bookmark this. I didn’t know anyone else knew about him prior to CIM, aside from the indoor marathon. He is going to be one of America’s next great marathoners. Dead serious. 4 years from now he will be a sub 2:10 guy consistently on any course. If I’m wrong after the trials, screw it. I’ll stop posting on this board permanently.

I'll add one more comment to this thread, and then I'll shut up until the Trials*.

I created an excel spreadsheet that generates ideal mile splits for CIM a few years ago and and have been sharing it online since 2017. This year, on October 24th, before CIM, CJ emailed me to ask for splits for 2:10. So there's that.

That also probably means that CJ is reading this thread and having a chuckle about it, FYI

A couple of guys in my running club have taken to running Saturday 20-milers at marathon pace. They have improved their times. I thought they were a bit bonkers, so it is interesting seeing more guys posting runs like this, as opposed to moderate-paced distance with a few miles at MP to finish.

Is this coming from a particular coach or training plan, or just bubbling up on its own? I haven't seen this kind of effort advocated anywhere. Good for these guys if they can handle it. I am looking forward to some exciting running at the trials.

Middle Ground wrote:

A couple of guys in my running club have taken to running Saturday 20-milers at marathon pace. They have improved their times. I thought they were a bit bonkers, so it is interesting seeing more guys posting runs like this, as opposed to moderate-paced distance with a few miles at MP to finish.

Is this coming from a particular coach or training plan, or just bubbling up on its own? I haven't seen this kind of effort advocated anywhere. Good for these guys if they can handle it. I am looking forward to some exciting running at the trials.

It's certainly done in other endurance sports. Running might be a little different due to the impact forces side, but you can easily build up to where cardiovascular 2-3 hrs total at near HMP takes little out of you, and probably 3-5 hours at MP or a touch easier (for an elite) doesn't take much out of you.

It's likely an attempt to get at, and improve, that fatigue resistance. It's also the same philosophy behind the Japanese school of thought around the marathon, where mileage often exceeds 180 or even 200mpw.

This thread is telling me exactly why American marathoners suck.

And make up your mind, would you? Is it that 25 are coming in before 2:13, or is it that 2:15 will be fifth place?

I sure hope Rupp holds up and can run a 2:09. If he's out, this is going to be a bunch of rooks floundering around at women's WR pace.

Rupp 2:09.47

Stinson 2:10.39

Walmsley 2:11.03

If you do not get answer from here just try find on Google.

Looks like CJ bounced back ok with some quick track reps yesterday.

Honestly, the track reps are even more of a good sign for him in my book. He has shown he can hold near MP for an incredibly long time, but if he is able to handle sub 4:40 pace ok that is a whole different thing.

peekay wrote:

Looks like CJ bounced back ok with some quick track reps yesterday.

Honestly, the track reps are even more of a good sign for him in my book. He has shown he can hold near MP for an incredibly long time, but if he is able to handle sub 4:40 pace ok that is a whole different thing.

26 on his last 200. Who was it that said “no speed send him to the ultras?”

Been following CJ's progress for half a year now. He's very talented and tailored for the marathon. Definitely 2:08 material already on a fast course. If he doesn't make the Olympics, i'd suggest he runs Chicago to make some waves.

3-5 hours (i.e. 45mins to 2:45 mins longer) than race pace doesn't take much out of you? Care to explain that?

To some extent the question should be can you do these type of workouts. The question is are they worth it? Would you be better off running 27 miles like this or do say 13 at MP with a 7 mile at the start and the end? Or alternate HM paced miles with more relaxed ones? Or any of a a zillion alternatives. Few people have found success doing long hard workouts like this.

If you run a 2:15 in practice, shouldn't anything less than a 2:10 or so be considered a failure?

peekay wrote:

Looks like CJ bounced back ok with some quick track reps yesterday.

Honestly, the track reps are even more of a good sign for him in my book. He has shown he can hold near MP for an incredibly long time, but if he is able to handle sub 4:40 pace ok that is a whole different thing.

MP these days is closer to 4:50-4:55. 15-20s is a lot (i.e. the difference between 3k pace and 10k pace). Backing off pace a bit allows you to do a heck of a low more work. Running 5x1 mile at 5k pace is a really hard workout. Running 10x1 mile at HM pace is pretty doable. The crazy fast workouts tend to be a be a better predictor of high performance races compared to the volume one.

I've read (and a woman I know who met Beardsley) said he left his marathon in training before the Duel.

20 miles @ 6:10 or faster pace.

I'm happy to do 20 miles in 2:34 or better lol.

1) Not surprised he reads here ;) I bet all of them do; they just don't tell their coaches.

2) Is it a "utility belt" or a "fanny pack?" ;)

That was my thought during my training--55-60 mpw as a start, but most of it very easy and only a little bit of speedwork. Japanese training. Just volume.

I ran a 3:24 but the weird thing was at the end I wasn't dying--my legs were giving way--but aerobically I felt my lungs could have gone another 5-6 miles. I wasn't really out of breath at the end.

seasoned ranker wrote:

Didn't Estrada or Vail (or both) have some very impressive long runs before the last OTs that didn't pan out so well for them? Something like 20 miles at 4:5x pace?

Big difference between 20 and 27 miles. It's possible to be able to hammer a fast 20-miler and still be bad at the marathon once glycogen utilization and cramping is a factor (though I think "the shoes" have helped in this regard).