Francis Sobotka wrote:
He recovers the same way as any other elite athlete. People seem to think that Jim is the only one who trains hard. They are all killing themselves in training regularly.
Here's some of Zane Robertson's training. More impressive than anything Jim has done imo
https://imgur.com/Mn0X54U
I know many 2:18 marathoners who can do long runs like that.
subelite hobbyjogger wrote:
comedyrelief wrote:
I would focus less on his workouts and more on his results. In his latest half marathon he finished between two guys that are ranked 15th and 17th respectively in the US in the marathon. What you have to convince others of is why he will displace all those guys that have run faster and whose focus is the marathon and not ultras.
I agree. Jim is not an experienced road marathoner. I don’t think his fans are giving the road marathon sufficient respect. There is a big learning curve, even for an experienced ultra trail runner like Jim. I think anything in the top 20 would be a very good result for him.
OT trials are about top 5 and then everybody else. The top 10 or so contenders run it all out and a bunch of them blow up and drop out. The rest of the top 10 are filled out by guys run to be top 10 and not make the team.
I predicate a 2:13 and say 7th place. Just enough to be inconclusive. Haters can go he was 3 mins from making the team. Fans can go he was with in 3 mins of making the team, imagine if he trained for the event instead of Camrades...
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Right. Your wife's running experiences can be used to evaluate America's best marathoners. I'm sure your, though, that your wife is a human being and a nice person.
When people train to reach their maximum performance, the slopes of their pace from 10000 to the marathon are very close to exactly parallel. From the marathon to the 100-miler, not so much.
There is a reason that Gaussian Distribution is also known as a Normal Distribution...because most stats fall into it. You are guilty of Selection Bias. Yes 68% of top performers will follow your nice neat line...and you will select those. Then there are those that fall outside that. I would also concede that the variance and standard deviation of this particular Normal Distribution are small.
But no one here is claiming that Walmsley is going to break 2 hours or even run 2:04:00. Just simply folks saying that he might not quite fit the line and his experience with a hilly course makes him a bigger factor than ordinarily might be the case. On a fast, flat course with perfect running weather Walmsley has zero chance. But Atlanta is not flat and fast. This is all before we start discussing tactics. We can all agree that Meb was NOT the fastest runner on Boston in 2014. But he ran away and the fastest runners disregarded him and paid for it. It sounds like many runners here would make that same decision if Walmsley ran away early.
You should not make assumptions on whether my wife is or is not a top performer. As an over 50 female...breaking 3 hours is a rarity.
Ultra > Marathon wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
If he craters, you ultra fans will be, like, " The sun was in eyes".
Im just really excited to see the trail/ultra scene represented in the trials. Plus Jim is the strongest hill runner in the lot. I don’t think anyone disagrees with that. 1000 feet of vertical is a lot and will certainly be a major factor for the race plays out.
It will certainly be a race that will be talked about for some time.
This is in my top races of the year, along with London, Tokyo/Sapporo, and UTMB. I think Jim’s chances of qualifying are small, but it is still very intriguing. Imagine if he got 10th at the Trials, won Comrades, and finished top 3 at UTMB. That is very plausible, and I doubt anyone else could do the same in a single year.
Malemute wrote:
AT THESWOOSH wrote:
SDSU Aztec, 5 x 5km is a traditional Renato Canova workout that has been run by all his world champion marathoners, including Sandre Moe recently and Gabius. It's a progression. You start at 4km, then go 5km, then some go 6km. The pace does not increase, but the volume increases.
You can see the same from Kamworor, Kirui x 2, Shami, Mosop, etc.
Welcome.
The difference is, Canova's guys don't have standing rest during this workout. They continue running during the rest periods at about 80-85% of their marathon pace. The standing rest makes this workout significantly easier.
Exactly right. I know a guys who runs 5:30 pace for the "rest" during this workout and runs them around 15:00 flat.
he's a 2:13 - 2:15 marathoner
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Kind of a stupid workout. Repeat miles would be much better. I've never heard of an elite runner doing 5×5K.
What a bad post.
5x5k at MP is an incredible workout.
WinnytheBish wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Kind of a stupid workout. Repeat miles would be much better. I've never heard of an elite runner doing 5×5K.
Is this person serious? Lol
This seems appropriate for an Aztec.
By U.C.SD. graduate.
oldtymerz wrote:
SDSU Aztec wrote:
Kind of a stupid workout. Repeat miles would be much better. I've never heard of an elite runner doing 5×5K.
What a bad post.
5x5k at MP is an incredible workout.
He’s a great runner, but...
If Jim did the 5 x 5K with zero rest, it would be worth a 2:12 marathon
If I do a HM at marathon pace two or three weeks before a marathon, that’s “an incredible workout”? A HM at MP seems harder than 5 x 5K at MP. So how is 5 x 5K an “incredible workout”?
what am i missing wrote:
oldtymerz wrote:
What a bad post.
5x5k at MP is an incredible workout.
He’s a great runner, but...
If Jim did the 5 x 5K with zero rest, it would be worth a 2:12 marathon
If I do a HM at marathon pace two or three weeks before a marathon, that’s “an incredible workout”? A HM at MP seems harder than 5 x 5K at MP. So how is 5 x 5K an “incredible workout”?
Exactly the point I was trying to make earlier in the thread. 4 minutes of standing/ slow jogging rest makes this workout easier than 12 or 13 consecutive miles at MP, which everybody seriously preparing for the trials is doing pretty comfortably right now. He's probably hitting faster than marathon pace by 5-10s per mile because of that rest.
I once did 5x3k at HM pace during a 17-18 mile run and thought I was going to die. 20k at HM pace is nearly impossible and flat out unnecessary.
I have seen many runners do 4x 5k at goal HM pace, and then finish with another 1 k+ at goal HM pace. Add in 2-3k warm up and 2-3k cool down. No recovery intervals between the 5k and 1K+ efforts, so continuous 21+k run. 26k+ (over 16 miles) total for the day.
They totally nailed goal HM pace for over 21k, so its possible.
Call it a time trial, very hard tempo, or race.
round and round wrote:
Malemute wrote:
The difference is, Canova's guys don't have standing rest during this workout. They continue running during the rest periods at about 80-85% of their marathon pace. The standing rest makes this workout significantly easier.
Exactly right. I know a guys who runs 5:30 pace for the "rest" during this workout and runs them around 15:00 flat.
he's a 2:13 - 2:15 marathoner
He runs 64 half pace for over 30k?
Great workout for someone that fast.
Essentially a race effort.
Walms did his at 3k. Good for a couple seconds faster pace.
He is a 2:12 guy who has a bias towards longer stuff, so this workout looks just right for him.
Bongmusa Mthembu will embarrass Walmsley at Comrades.
5x5k at marathon pace w/ 4 min rest is definitely not a too taxing workout. It's not easy run obviously, but it's not hard for sure.
If he did that with 1 min rest I would say it's decent work but 4 min allows for complete recovery, definitely well enough to get in 15 minutes of running at MP pace after that.
subelite hobbyjogger wrote:
comedyrelief wrote:
I would focus less on his workouts and more on his results. In his latest half marathon he finished between two guys that are ranked 15th and 17th respectively in the US in the marathon. What you have to convince others of is why he will displace all those guys that have run faster and whose focus is the marathon and not ultras.
I agree. Jim is not an experienced road marathoner. I don’t think his fans are giving the road marathon sufficient respect. There is a big learning curve, even for an experienced ultra trail runner like Jim. I think anything in the top 20 would be a very good result for him.
I hope he figures out how to handle 26.2 miles in a single run soon or he'll really struggle.
reed wrote:
Let’s just take all the GPS watches of all Trials qualifiers and see who’s “vo2max prediction” is higher
+1
Collin wrote:
What I'm more impressed by is the fact that he did this workout 3 days after a 31.2 mile run at 5:33 pace at nearly 7000' of altitude with 1788' gain. Drop this to sea level and a flat course, give him a taper, and he's going to run stupid fast. Fast enough to make the team? No, but he should have a top 10 finish.
Are you referring to the workout in the OP? That was at 3k altitude, not 7k.
other options wrote:
My wife ran a 91 HM then went on to run a 2:58 marathon. People she runs with can beat her in every distance until they hit the marathon. In the marathon...it is not the fastest runner that always wins...it is the runner that slows down the least. I am sure the Walmsley fans are just saying...he has enough speed when combined with his proclivity for endurance that he is in the fight. My wife’s fastest 2 HMs are inside her fastest marathon.
No offense but if this is true, then all it means is that your wife apparently doesn't know how to race a HM properly.
Atlanta is a slow and hilly course (even the updated one) so the times everyone is yelling are worthless. What it counts is making the podium and Walmsley has a chance.
Brojos, can we start immediately deleting these threads or banning the person posting these? They're pathetic, and spam at this point. We don't need these after every workout or big week that Jim has. I wouldn't think Walmsley would post these as self-promotion, but rather some sad fan-boy constantly refreshing Strava to see what Jim has done. It's about as bad as all the Vapor Fly threads. This is tons of free advertising for Hoka/Walsmley's brand just like all the Vapor Fly threads are tons of free advertising for Nike.
Doug Heffernan wrote:
Brojos, can we start immediately deleting these threads or banning the person posting these? They're pathetic, and spam at this point. We don't need these after every workout or big week that Jim has. I wouldn't think Walmsley would post these as self-promotion, but rather some sad fan-boy constantly refreshing Strava to see what Jim has done. It's about as bad as all the Vapor Fly threads. This is tons of free advertising for Hoka/Walsmley's brand just like all the Vapor Fly threads are tons of free advertising for Nike.
For me its more interesting than most of the boards.
Its cool talking about these workouts, what others are doing, and predicting what Jim can do. It is actually all very insightful to elite marathoning.
Also you are ugly.