Mile repeats for a 9:00 3200 runner

If you can tempo comfortably at 5:15 pace for ~5 miles and can break 2:00 in the 800 and 4:15 in the 1600, I think you're a candidate for sub-9. Don't do 1600m repeats at goal 3200 pace. Keep that pace to 1ks at most

shoe me strava wrote:

Caruso > D.Rose! wrote:

I've been a successful athlete as well as a successful coach. Have taken a team to NXN. 4 individuals to NXN. 4 individuals to Foot Locker. 2 boys sub-9:00. 4 boys at 4:11 or faster. There are other coaches with more success, of course, but I've done alright in the short time I've coached at the high school level.

I want to see Strava proof that your 9 min 3200 guys are running 3x1600 in 4:30 with 30 sec rest. Go ahead, prove it. We are waiting...

I seriously second this request. Think about it: That would mean that a kid who runs 4:30 pace for two miles would complete this workout in 14:30 (that includes the two 30s rest periods!).

Most likely this same kid would barely eek out a 14:30 on a 3-mile race if he's aerobically developed and running evenly, and you're requesting that he run it while burning a minute of that idle and resting, and do it in practice?

Don't race the workout! Even so, I don't think that's possible.

Well, there this though wrote:

Caruso > D.Rose! wrote:

Yes, most people can do 3 x 1600 at 3K race pace in a workout with 30-60 seconds rest in between unless they are mentally not up for it.

You are clueless. Looney. Probably never run a step in your life. Youve certainly never raced. I think the word im looking for is moran.

I second that. I was an 8:45 3000m runner, and don't think I'd have wanted to run 3x1600m in 4:40 with 30-60 seconds recovery. If I could it would have been an absolute all out effort. It's basically 3 miles at about 12 seconds per mile faster than I could run for a straight 3 miles (converting) for with only 30/60 sec between runs.

It's January. Focus on slow, long intervals and tempo runs

Speed doesn't mean anything if you're cooked by May

shoe me strava wrote:

Caruso > D.Rose! wrote:

I've been a successful athlete as well as a successful coach. Have taken a team to NXN. 4 individuals to NXN. 4 individuals to Foot Locker. 2 boys sub-9:00. 4 boys at 4:11 or faster. There are other coaches with more success, of course, but I've done alright in the short time I've coached at the high school level.

I want to see Strava proof that your 9 min 3200 guys are running 3x1600 in 4:30 with 30 sec rest. Go ahead, prove it. We are waiting...

Still waiting, Mr. National class coach.

Crickets...

Don’t neglect the long run wrote:

NotNicoYoungButPrettyGood wrote:

How fast should a high school 9-flat 3200 runner do 1600m repeats? I'm asking in the context of a 4-5 x 1600 track workout with decent rest in between, not a time trial or race-level effort. If a runner could do 5x4:45 in trainers, would that be an indication of 9 minute fitness? 4:50? 4:40?

Or in general, how much slower than 3200 pace should 1600m repeats be done to be an effective interval workout?

I'm a high school senior just trying to get good. Thanks for any advice.

Not the same workout, but I used to do 3x1600 in 4:30 w/a two-lap jog rest. I wasn’t all out but they were very challenging. That’s when I knew I had sub-9:00 fitness.

I used to do the same workouts and looking back they were stupidly hard. Yes if you can do them, you can run sub 9:00 but backing off a bit (say 4:45-4:50) and running 5-6 of them is a better workout in general for actual aerobic development. Getting 25+ mins of work instead of 14 just gives better results for most people. You do need to do some faster stuff but things like 6-8x1000 seem to be a better fit for a couple of sharpening workouts.

You can do something like 3x1600@3k pace as a confidence booster. Some people like do things like that.

I coach a pair of twins aiming for sub 9 this season after 4:20/9:06 in their Jr. season. + an NXN/FL qualification this year and both sub 15. I wouldn’t advise going after that race pace too early. We do “tinman based” training so our entire pre-season is simple. This will be a long post but hopefully you can use some of this:

1.) ~60min of running a day, with one day off/or 3-5mi easy

2.) one fartlek a week on roads, not on the track. For example: 8x1min on/2off; 5-6x2min on/60-90sec off; 4-6x3min on/90-120sec off. Rep length and recovery shortens as we get closer to March. I don’t have them look at pace during on reps, I just check their Strava after. Their on reps have been ~4:30-4:45 for 1-2min reps depending on the day and amount of snow.

3.) one tempo a week at mile pace of 3200m PR +50-60 sec. Followed by 4-6x30sec fast/1min easy. Currently up to 20min tempo at 5:25-5:30 this Thursday, will build up to 30min at max but not go beyond and add a couple 1min reps or hills after as they progress.

4.) a long run over hilly terrain, easy to moderate, building up to 90min by end of February and keeping that up until April before backing down to 80min as races get more frequent.

Some key workouts in season we do in season:

1.)5x1K at CV (for them 3:05-3:07 last year) with 200m slow jog followed by 5x400 at 1600 pace with 400m jog. We build up to 5 reps but start early racing season at 3x1k.

2.) Race Sim- 400-800-1600-800-400 @ 2mi RP with half distance recovery. Done maybe once or twice in a whole season, kids like it and say it helps them really feel out the pace, but the mile at goal pace can be really tough (4:30).

3.) 2mi “uptempo” ~10:30, 2x400 @1600, 2x200 @800.

Didn’t do anything fancier than that all season and led to one finishing 2nd in the mile and one winning the 2mi.

Good luck kid

(Side note 5x1600 in 4:45 is about what I did in college in low 14 shape, that is maybe doable for a super aerobically fit kid but I’d stick to the K reps and run ~4:50 pace instead)

Calling Caruso wrote:

shoe me strava wrote:

I want to see Strava proof that your 9 min 3200 guys are running 3x1600 in 4:30 with 30 sec rest. Go ahead, prove it. We are waiting...

Still waiting, Mr. National class coach.

Crickets...

You really think everyone uses Strava? Neither of the sub-9 boys I coached ever used it. I’d say about 10% of the kids I’ve coached use it and of those only one or two are consistent with it.

Either way I don’t owe you or anybody else jacks.t. Someone asked a question and I gave my opinion based on experience. The problem people are having here is they don’t have experience in other endurance sports like swimming or cycling where short rest periods are much more common. Additionally we would build up to something like the workout in question. Beginning of the year we would start with much shorter intervals but still short rest periods of 30-60 seconds. As the season goes on we move from 400 to 600 to 800 then 1000, all with similar overall volume. Then at the end we would do something like the 3 x 1600 and by that time it’s not shocking to them mentally like it is to so many people here.

It is impossible. That workout would indicate sub 8:40.

So you are just making stuff up. Cool.

A previous poster correctly pointed out that your so-called 3x1600 at 3k race pace with 30 sec rest is pretty much impossible. You'd do yourself a favor by admitting your mistake and shutting your cake hole. Instead, you doubled down on your nonsense. LRC at its finest, folks.

I was right around 9 flat in high school, a comparable workout I did early-ish in the year was 4 x 800 @ 2:15 in trainers with 400 meter slow jog recovery.

I'd follow it up with 4 x 200 a little quicker (30-32 seconds), and possibly slow up the 800's to more like 2:17/2:18 so that you're not completely going to the well.

LRC at its finest indeed: bash the people who have actual experience in favor of those who don’t.

I have 3 former guys running around 8 flat for 3k at 3 different colleges. None could do this workout but could race around 8:35 for 3200.

Coach of coaches wrote:

I have 3 former guys running around 8 flat for 3k at 3 different colleges. None could do this workout but could race around 8:35 for 3200.

Have a single one of them ever tried? Are they accustomed to shorter rest periods to begin with?

If a 9 minute guy ran a 4:30 in practice and tried to run another 1600 on 1 minute rest, he would be lucky to run 4:50. The third one would be 6 minutes.

Thanks, everyone. The more advice the better!

I really am in high school, just for the record, not some coach trying to plan workouts. It's still winter so my season hasn't started yet and I'm on my own for now. I do have a coach once the outdoor season starts, but I have a fair amount of say in planning training even then. I've been running ~65mpw and mostly keeping the workouts to long tempos at 5:2x pace and some 200s, hills, and strides. The 5 x 16 was an exception. I averaged 4:50ish pace, not 4:45 as people assumed, but I think I could've done 4:45 with teammates to help lead and could certainly build up to that by the end of the season.

Mostly I'll keep the long intervals with short rest for later in the season. I'm a slow-twitch guy, so no 1:55 800s for me. I think I'm in about 4:20 and 2:02 shape right now, but hard to tell before races start. Definitely not in 9:00 shape now, but hopefully by May...

Well, there this though wrote:

Caruso > D.Rose! wrote:

Yes, most people can do 3 x 1600 at 3K race pace in a workout with 30-60 seconds rest in between unless they are mentally not up for it.

You are clueless. Looney. Probably never run a step in your life. Youve certainly never raced. I think the word im looking for is moran.

Amen. Caruso > D.Rose! is crazy. Imagine telling someone to run 3xmile with 30 seconds rest at 3000m pace lol.

Sure it is done every day by 25 minute 5k runners.

Caruso > D. Rose! wrote:

Calling Caruso wrote:

So you are just making stuff up. Cool.

A previous poster correctly pointed out that your so-called 3x1600 at 3k race pace with 30 sec rest is pretty much impossible. You'd do yourself a favor by admitting your mistake and shutting your cake hole. Instead, you doubled down on your nonsense. LRC at its finest, folks.

LRC at its finest indeed: bash the people who have actual experience in favor of those who don’t.

Everyone, and I mean everyone on this board has called you out and agreed that the workout you described is basically impossible. I asked for Strava verification, but of course you conveniently claim you have none. I guarantee every one of your 9 flat guys has GPS data on their workouts. You just don't want to provide it because the workout never happened. I wish you would just wish you would man up and admit that you are wrong.