BREAKING THE 4:20 MILE

Les wrote:

What is your 800 time? I find that to be a better predictor of mile performance than longer distances.

^^ Les understands the mile. It is a speed based event. 800 and 400 times are more important than your 3200 . 2:05 won't cut it, but 2:00ish give or take for an exceptionally strong runner and sub 4:20 doable.

Ok, I agree I need to get my 800 time down to keep improving in the mile, though I’m not going to do that at the expense of putting in mileage to train for the 3200. What are good 800 workouts? Indicators of 2:00 fitness/speed?

If you’re comfortable and not injured running 60 mpw, I’d keep doing that until ca 3 or 4 weeks before your target race date. Try improving your times on 400 repeats in last 6 weeks, but since you sound like more of a distance guy, I would do 8 or 10 with at least a 90 second jog in between, maybe a longer jog like a full lap. In the last few weeks, do some 200 repeats, and run some more 800’s this season. If you can run more like 2:01 or 2:02, the 2:10 pace you need will be easier. Best thing is if you have a decent coach to guide workouts and monitor how you’re feeling. Try to have fun. I ran 2:09/4:30/9:34; didn’t have the speed to run 4:20

Ca$hclay wrote:

Les wrote:

What is your 800 time? I find that to be a better predictor of mile performance than longer distances.

^^ Les understands the mile. It is a speed based event. 800 and 400 times are more important than your 3200 . 2:05 won't cut it, but 2:00ish give or take for an exceptionally strong runner and sub 4:20 doable.

With a 2:00 800, OP would have a chance. Not a great one, but a chance. An 800 is more than half the standard 1500 distance. People got very excited about Centro's 13 min. 5k a few weeks before the World Championships but his 5k strength didn't translate. Cheruiyot ran away from him. The guys that finished 2nd and 3rd, Mahkloufi and Lewandowski, are both excellent 800 runners. Don't think either one has ever raced a 5k. Centro would have been better off running a PR 800 instead of meaningless 5k to qualify for the Olympics a whole year away. Three weeks before the World Championships, shouldn't that race be the focus?

OP is in high school and ran under 4:30 in the mile a year ago. High school guys tend to improve year-to-year. If he stays healthy and gets a good winter base in he should make it, 2:00 800 or no.

Your volume is good. Do some long intervals before you do the short ones and 4:20 will be no prob.

Build up to 5 @ 1 mile around 4:50. Do workouts like that for a month. Then run some fast stuff. By the way - 9:30 isn't bad but you'll kill that if you do some long intervals.

OP again wrote:

Ok, I agree I need to get my 800 time down to keep improving in the mile, though I’m not going to do that at the expense of putting in mileage to train for the 3200. What are good 800 workouts? Indicators of 2:00 fitness/speed?

Think about what you just said. You cannot improve your 800m and speed endurance significantly while focusing on the 3200m. Your time over the longer distance doesn't indicate you have the talent to run a fast mile purely aerobically and with mininal speed capabilities. If you wish to have your mile time improve, you need to focus on improving your 800m so you can handle running 2:09 and keep going; which means lowering the mileage to dedicate to 800m/mile training. 2:05 won't cut it for you.

One of my favourite 800m indicator workouts is as follows:

(500m + 60s rest + 300m; both reps at 100%). Take 10 minute rest then repeat the same interval a second time. Add your 500m and 300m time together to get a rough indication of your 800m ability. If the second interval is very close to the first, it shows great anaerobic endurance and that the times are even more accurate to what you can do in a race.

But again, you need to make a choice. Go all in with trying to break 4:20, or spread yourself across the mile/3200 and not break 4:20

I am in a similar position to you but probably much older. I never broke 4:20 for the indoor mile but am shooting for a sub 4 1500 (ran 4:05 in 2017) this outdoor season a couple years out of college. I have also been more of a strength based runner with a long stride and poor running efficiency. This translated to 800 times between 2:00-2:01 and a mile time between 4:23-4:24 (full mile) Races longer than a mile (3k/5k) have always been a struggle (8:55/15:45) due to form and efficiency but based on your 3200 time you don’t have the same issue. Hit the weight room this winter and work on your explosive power with some hill work and this should translate to a sub 4:20. Good luck!

I agree that you need to commit to being a middle-distance runner, so for now stop messing around with the 2-mile. Sure you can jump in a 2-miler race once in a while for giggles, but train and race for the 800/1500/mile.

I was caught between middle and long training in school. I ended up with PRs of 4:20.9 and 4:01.0 1500. Honestly, I'll always wonder if I coulda done better!?#@$%?!

Clearly OP is more of a distance runner and the 4:20 is just one track season goal. Don't give up chasing success in the 3200 to become a mediocre 800 guy. More speed-endurance will lead to a faster mile. If you build up strength and keep running good mileage, you could break 9:15 and 4:20.

Runner314 wrote:

Clearly OP is more of a distance runner and the 4:20 is just one track season goal. Don't give up chasing success in the 3200 to become a mediocre 800 guy. More speed-endurance will lead to a faster mile. If you build up strength and keep running good mileage, you could break 9:15 and 4:20.

+1.

Do your strides, add in some sprint work, but keep the aerobic focus.

SalmonRice wrote:

One of my favourite 800m indicator workouts is as follows:

(500m + 60s rest + 300m; both reps at 100%). Take 10 minute rest then repeat the same interval a second time. Add your 500m and 300m time together to get a rough indication of your 800m ability. If the second interval is very close to the first, it shows great anaerobic endurance and that the times are even more accurate to what you can do in a race.

But again, you need to make a choice. Go all in with trying to break 4:20, or spread yourself across the mile/3200 and not break 4:20

This is a good workout but the reps are supposed to be done at 800 effort, not all out. It will feel like an all out effort on the second set though.

Here are the at the time PRs of two people I know who broke 4:20:

1. 2:02, 8:20 3k, 14:30. But he closed the last 880y in 2:02 and ran 1:54 and sub 4:10 a tiny bit later

2. 1:52, 8:50, 16:15 XC 5k (HS). Far more speed based

In my opinion, you need sub 2 to have a shot, especially in HS

4:20 is not fast for a high school mile