Lasse Viren = Fraud? 1976 article shows that he was a blood doper

"The runner now has an extra pint of blood in his system. The extra pint provides extra stamina"

So how does that work then? How does extra blood provide extra stamina? In 50 years no-one has been able to explain that.

Religious Fundamentalism wrote:

"The runner now has an extra pint of blood in his system. The extra pint provides extra stamina"

So how does that work then? How does extra blood provide extra stamina? In 50 years no-one has been able to explain that.

More RBCs = More Endurance Capacity (nothing new there ?).

Here's the deal wrote:

Religious Fundamentalism wrote:

"The runner now has an extra pint of blood in his system. The extra pint provides extra stamina"

So how does that work then? How does extra blood provide extra stamina? In 50 years no-one has been able to explain that.

More RBCs = More Endurance Capacity (nothing new there ?).

That's not an explanation, just a repetition of the stupidity.

Yaz ya wrote:

Lasse Laughs Last wrote:

"Nothing wrong" = not illegal. Blood doping was not illegal in 1976.

*Lasse laughs all the way to the bank*

Yep, and someday they’ll say distance records set around 2020 were set by cheaters wearing cheater fly’s which were legal back then.

yawn , by 2040 we’ll look back at how primitive they ran back in 2019 because the new nykies will employ small wheels where the top guy will skate to 24:58.4 to set new worlds record.

Religious Fundamentalism wrote:

Here's the deal wrote:

More RBCs = More Endurance Capacity (nothing new there ?).

That's not an explanation, just a repetition of the stupidity.

Well...then, there must have been thousands of stupid endurance athletes that successfully used blood doping and EPO over several decades...Jon.

Think this one through wrote:

Religious Fundamentalism wrote:

That's not an explanation, just a repetition of the stupidity.

Well...then, there must have been thousands of stupid endurance athletes that successfully used blood doping and EPO over several decades...Jon.

Thousands of stupid athletes, yes. Successfully used it? Hmm, how does it increase endurance? Just repeating stupidity doesn't answer the question, it just entrenches the stupidity.

Religious Fundamentalism wrote:

"The runner now has an extra pint of blood in his system. The extra pint provides extra stamina"

So how does that work then? How does extra blood provide extra stamina? In 50 years no-one has been able to explain that.

No-one can explain gravity ... does that mean it doesn't exist for you?

whatelseisnew wrote:

I would not be surprised. So much cheating at the top.

His 1976 Montreal Olympics:

Day 1: He finished his 10,000m heat in 28:14 to qualify automatically.

Day 4: He finished the 10,000m final in 27:40 to win.

Day 6: He finished his 5000m heat in 13:33 to qualify automatically.

Day 8: He finished the 5000m final in 13:24, with the last mile under 4:00, to win.

Day 9: He finished the marathon in 2:13:10 to place 5th, just 18 hours after the 5000m final.

It is not totally unbelievable without doping. Athletes commonly run fast times shortly after a championship.

2 or 3 days after Montreal ended there was an elite 2 mile in Philadelphia. Quax, Geis, Liquori, others. Winner was sub 8:20. Viren 8:22.

2 mile was always Viren's best distance.

This post leaves me with the following questions and observations: 1) Drug cheat "allegations" does not show that "he was a blood doper". This is true even if the allegations were made in 1976. Generally, an allegation on its own carries zero weight. The archived newspaper article changes nothing, whatever you "used to think". 2) Whether "blood packing" was cheating or not is a moot point if "blood packing" did not occur. 3) Do any LRC posters use Viren as a counter argument to diminish achievements East African champions? How would that logic work? Viren's best 10K (27:38) ranks around 1000, and his best 5K (13:16) ranks around 2500. Even by non-African standards, these are not impressively fast times. You are right to deny that "he is not on the same tier in terms of GOAT conversations", but did anyone ever say otherwise?

dfa wrote:

I used to think Lasse Viren - the dude who crushed Prefontaine in the Olympics - was a clean runner with a clean legacy.

I used to think he stood out and separated against some of the more "questionable" distance runners in the modern Era like Daniel Komen, Hicham El G, etc.

But no, it turns out that he just had an early adopter mentality to EPO, which gave him a huge leg up over not just East Africans but Americans, too.

So basically with this, LRC posters - hopefully - stop using Lasse Viren as a counter-argument to diminish the achievements of East African champions like Kenny B, Mo Farah, and such. He is not on the same tier in terms of GOAT conversations with these drug cheat allegations.

Probably way more than "thousands" of stupid endurance athletes over the decades. What do you mean by "successfully used"? Of course dopers succeeded to use doping.

Think this one through wrote:

Well...then, there must have been thousands of stupid endurance athletes that successfully used blood doping and EPO over several decades...Jon.

rekrunner wrote:

Probably way more than "thousands" of stupid endurance athletes over the decades.

What do you mean by "successfully used"? Of course dopers succeeded to use doping.

Think this one through wrote:

Well...then, there must have been thousands of stupid endurance athletes that successfully used blood doping and EPO over several decades...Jon.

It sure didn't take long for your typical smart alec response. It figures any posts with PEDs & performance and you start your infamous trolling (who would have thought. Lol).

And you know what I mean...so don't play stupid. There's many cheaters out there who have benefited from their doping having an unfair advantage over their competition and producing some remarkable performances over the years e.g., Ramzi, Kiprop, B. Boulami, etc.

Remember this? A WR performance while on the hot sauce!

I agree with "dopers succeeded to use doping". This includes talented runners capable of remarkable performances.

In the first place, I don't really care. Blood doping wasn't illegal and anyone else could have done.

In the second place, even if he did, I don't think it offered a clear advantage, not like EPO or current PEDs.

In the third place, for goodness sake, can't we just appreciate 5 very special Olympic performances, 4 of which were gold? Amazing, amazing performances, against some pretty good competition.

East Africans didn't really compete then, so how can you call that "good competition"

dfa wrote:

East Africans didn't really compete then, so how can you call that "good competition"

Are you talking about 1976 when there was an African boycott? Easy Africans most definitely competed in 1972.

"East" Africans, not "Easy Africans."

Correct.

Viren would have had a torrid time dealing with John Ngeno, Joshua Kimetto , Henry Rono and Samson Kimobwa who subsequently set the world record in the 10,000m in 1977. We might not be talking about Viren had the boycott not happened.

Not to mention Miruts Yifter and Suleiman Nyambui

Joplas wrote:

Correct.

Viren would have had a torrid time dealing with John Ngeno, Joshua Kimetto , Henry Rono and Samson Kimobwa who subsequently set the world record in the 10,000m in 1977. We might not be talking about Viren had the boycott not happened.

Except that by 76, viren already had two Olympic golds, the 10,000m gold after falling in the race and setting a wr. You don't think that's enough to enter the conversation as legendary?

As an aside, Samson's wr came in 1977 (as you stated), but although he won the NCAA 10000m championship in 77, he wasn't a very strong championship racer...Rono's WR obviously came a year later in 1978. How viren would fare against them in 1976 is a bit of a moot point, in my opinion.