Lasse Viren = Fraud? 1976 article shows that he was a blood doper

YMMV wrote:

Pipdick wrote:

think he stayed healthy, trained without incident and dabbled in extras before a major buildup. .

In the article he claimed to have been injured for most of the inter-Olympic years. Got "lucky" through an Olympic cycle to be healthy right when it counted most.

YMMV wrote:

Pipdick wrote:

think he stayed healthy, trained without incident and dabbled in extras before a major buildup. .

In the article he claimed to have been injured for most of the inter-Olympic years. Got "lucky" through an Olympic cycle to be healthy right when it counted most.

The Finnish training methods of the 1970s appear to have been very hard on the body. Compare Viren to Vaatainen, another 1972 Finnish Olympic gold medalist, who was also constantly injured and never managed to have a good season again. And they were the ones who managed to reach the top before their bodies broke down.

What I'm sure has been discussed to death is that similar to Bekele (or Nadal!), Viren's amazing ability to come back from his very real injuries was one of the main reasons for the doping accusations in the first place. Blood doping was the rumor at the time, a very widely spread one, as can be seen from the New York Times article.. but this was the pharmacologically competitive 1970s, the age of Slupianek and Oldfield, and some think that Finns were spreading false rumors to mask what they were *really* up to.

Lasse Laughs Last wrote:

"Nothing wrong" = not illegal. Blood doping was not illegal in 1976.

*Lasse laughs all the way to the bank*

Yep, and someday they’ll say distance records set around 2020 were set by cheaters wearing cheater fly’s which were legal back then.

This has to be a troll post. EVERYONE knows Lasse Viren was a blood doper. Common knowledge in the sport. You must be new or very young.

Yeah, I also wonder why this thread is up in 2019. People have known, for decades, that Viren blood doped.

Also, you guys, and the entire American distance community, think and talk about Pre why too much.

Interesting that the original article mentions that a tell-tale physical sign of blood doping is yellow jaundice.

This is exactly what Kip Keino was suffering from during and immediately after his 5K flop in Mexico.

Gets taken to hospital and miraculously whips Jim Ryun in the 1500 the next day.

This is old news. Lasse Viren’s results have always been questioned as he was a championship racer. When questioned about “blood doping” he is famous for saying he drank reindeer milk as his secret for running so well.

Finland distance runners and endurance athletes were all on the reindeer milk.

once they stopped the process.

then Finish distance runners on the podium became non existent in totality.

the literature is very deep, if you care to look.

then Europe started blood doping and then spread beyond.

you had a lot of grey area stuff, like Paula manipulation to stay healthy and voodoo doctors with various schemes,

then you got HGH and EPO

the steroids and testosterone are in the mix all the way, especially recently after they figured out the benefits to all athletes.

the al sal grey zone area, is basically trying to cheat without cheating, in warfare with the "traditional' PED schemes.

So Ingebritsens are on reindeer milk too probably?

Jogger Hobby wrote:

This has to be a troll post. EVERYONE knows Lasse Viren was a blood doper. Common knowledge in the sport. You must be new or very young.

There are many people who have posted here over the years who believe Viren never used blood transfusions. They're either sincere or just trolling. ?

Hi, I'm a Finn so thought I would chime in. I'm a millenial and basically also thought that he was some great 100% clean guy back in the day. Well my father is a huge sports fan from Viren's generation and said it was pretty much a known fact he was doping, but no one really cared since everyone was doing it, the legislation wasn't as strict etc. Viren has always denied all suspicions and basically says people can suspect all they want until they find him guilty. I certainly can't say what's true, that can only Mr. Viren himself. But I thought a perspective on how Finns perceive him might be fun on this topic.

News article from 1981:

https://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_QJVAAAAIBAJ&sjid=aJQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4126%2C4617859

I would imagine that some Finns are like your dad and think Viren blood doped and some think not. One of his most frequent training partners told me in 1975 that he was very sure Viren did not blood dope. And you should understand that Viren could have blood doped and still have been 100% clean because blood packing was legal at the time. That said, I can tell you that there was definitely stuff being done in Finland in those years that should not have been done but that doesn't mean Viren was or was not doing it.

Coevett wrote:

Interesting that the original article mentions that a tell-tale physical sign of blood doping is yellow jaundice.

This is exactly what Kip Keino was suffering from during and immediately after his 5K flop in Mexico.

Gets taken to hospital and miraculously whips Jim Ryun in the 1500 the next day.

this is very interesting. the 334x, near WR at super altitude, and a necessary blood infusion at the hospital,

to optimal red blood cell count explains a lot.

Keino though from here is not on my radar as a dope cheat, nor are many africans of that era, except for random amphetamine use....

Finnis millenial wrote:

Hi, I'm a Finn so thought I would chime in. I'm a millenial and basically also thought that he was some great 100% clean guy back in the day. Well my father is a huge sports fan from Viren's generation and said it was pretty much a known fact he was doping, but no one really cared since everyone was doing it, the legislation wasn't as strict etc. Viren has always denied all suspicions and basically says people can suspect all they want until they find him guilty. I certainly can't say what's true, that can only Mr. Viren himself. But I thought a perspective on how Finns perceive him might be fun on this topic.

that is correct. everyone knew, that is after 72.

and not everyone was doing it in 72 or 76

by 76 the europeans were doing it,

not foster, not quax and not foster.

the 76 metals go

quax gold

dixon silver

foster bronze.

the other dudes were DOPE.

imagine if there is a god, and come judgement day, you actually went to hell, for taking peoples medals.

you have to realize that viren without reindeer juice never came close to foster, and the kiwis

only at the OG where the dude was jacked, and changed blood after the heats.

would be nice if everyone just confessed.

so they can go to heaven.

why be a criminal?////

For one, Teammate Juha Vaatinen got busted, but the real reason was the Finn cross"-country skiers were notorious for blood doping. Their cyclists, too.

CousinPookie wrote:

For one, Teammate Juha Vaatinen got busted

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNope!

Fada Time wrote:

CousinPookie wrote:

For one, Teammate Juha Vaatinen got busted

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNope!

Seconded.

longjack wrote:

Coevett wrote:

Interesting that the original article mentions that a tell-tale physical sign of blood doping is yellow jaundice.

This is exactly what Kip Keino was suffering from during and immediately after his 5K flop in Mexico.

Gets taken to hospital and miraculously whips Jim Ryun in the 1500 the next day.

this is very interesting. the 334x, near WR at super altitude, and a necessary blood infusion at the hospital,

to optimal red blood cell count explains a lot.

Keino though from here is not on my radar as a dope cheat, nor are many africans of that era, except for random amphetamine use....

It would be nice to think that the Kenyans were more innocent back then, but if you look a bit more closely you'll see that the whole early history of that nation being transformed almost single-handedly (by a European sports scientist - John Velzian) into a distance running power house overnight is very dubious.

That European sports scientist, who initially went to Kenya with the stated mission of proving that Kenyans were genetically superior at running, temporarily was ousted in 68 as his role of head of Kenyan Athletics by Keino and Rudisha's dad, because they believed he was taking all the credit.

The form of the Kenyans in the summer of 68, including Keino and Rudisha's dad, suddenly plummeted to the extent they were written off for Mexico (another reason Ryun didn't bat an eye when Keino got a lead on him in the 1500m final).

At the last moment, John Velzian is re-instated in time for the Games, and against all expectations, Kenyans enjoy a flood of medals in the distance events, including of course Keino in the 1500.

The 68 Games were notorious for being the first real doped Olympics on the track. Charlie Francis claimed that the IAAF did a study of steroid doping (which wasn't yet prohibited) and found it to be rampant, with the entire Jamaican and Kenyan teams roiding.

Gugg wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

100% fraud. Pre got robbed

Prove it.

He probably did get robbed, but then again, when Pre had his fatal alcohol induced car crash, he'd been up all night drinking with the group of Finnish elite runners he was training with at the time.

Maybe if Pre hadn't died, we were about to see how fast he could be on reindeer milk..