Mary Cain hot take

"The athletes weight is the most crucial parameter of overall physical ability."

Oh really? More so than running economy or VO2?

Under your logic there is nothing more to running than losing weight -- training isn't really needed.

In reality, weight does matter, but there's a lot more to it than that. Like staying healthy, for example.

Peaky Blinders wrote:

They were hyper-focused on her weight, but failed to have a certified sports psychologist or nutritionist on staff.

I don't get why this keeps being repeated.

Darren Treasure was the psychologist and has a PhD. He is arguable the best sports psychologist out there:

Is the issue he has no active practice license? Does any training group have a licensed psychologist on staff?

As for the nutrtionalist, they did have one. Alberto's emails to Kara Goucher showed he was consulting with her nutriotnalist.

Mary suffered from the same psychological conflict as battered wives

Flat wrong. It is incredibly insulting to victims of domestic violence by saying what she experienced was equivalent to domestic violence.

Isn’t an 800 m such a niche distance that anyone like Alberto messing with such a specialist in her prime reason enough for him to be considered an idiot?

C0l0rado wrote:

"The athletes weight is the most crucial parameter of overall physical ability."

Oh really? More so than running economy or VO2?

Both of those measures are proportional to weight.

C0l0rado wrote:

Under your logic there is nothing more to running than losing weight -- training isn't really needed.

That's not what he said at all.

I know now why I dislike the running scene so much, and am glad on moved on to top flight academic and professional achievement shortly after Division 1 athletics.

Mary was a young woman. She let her coaches know that she was cutting herself, and they didn't move at lightspeed to help her? Unthinkable. Her health and well being matters above all else. Go ahead - go on in the prototypical self absorbed Let's Run way about her weight and she knew what she was signing up for (I doubt she did, but no matter). If this is the way Salazar and treats a young person in trouble, well, it is far more damning that the drug allegations. I don't think it a close call, but then again, I am not inclined to defend matters in the name of running, a terrifically marginal sport made even more so by drug problems and consistently dysfunctional leadership.

Wait where is the evidence she gained weight???

When she was setting high school records she was not a rail and had a normal shape to her....so I really don't buy there was any upswing in her weight...only in alsal'

s mind did weight have anything to do with her performance.

It's exactly what he said:

"The athletes weight is the most crucial parameter of overall physical ability."

Also, absolute VO2 is not relative to weight.

800 respect wrote:

Isn’t an 800 m such a niche distance that anyone like Alberto messing with such a specialist in her prime reason enough for him to be considered an idiot?

Where did this idea that Cain was an 800 specialist come from? An 800 specialist does not finish 2nd the 2012 NXN like Cain did. It was very rational to believe that the 1500 would have been her best distance. Performance wise, her 800 and 1500 PRs were equal and as she gained strength it is likely she would have become better at 1500.

C0l0rado wrote:

It's exactly what he said:

"The athletes weight is the most crucial parameter of overall physical ability."

Nope. You can't jump from that statement to "here is nothing more to running than losing weight -- training isn't really needed."

C0l0rado wrote:

Also, absolute VO2 is not relative to weight.

Absolute max oxygen updake doesn't change much in already trained athletes, so it would still be correct to say weight is more important.

Peaky Blinders wrote:

Mary suffered from the same psychological conflict as battered wives

Yeah - just like the stress I suffer from is the same as the psychological conflict that soldiers with PTSD do.

Get out of here with this.

We know Mary was harassed about weight and cutting/hurting herself. We have NO IDEA to what extent.

I work with junior high and high school girls and about 10% of them cut (that I know and talk to about). Some cut very deep to hurt themselves. Some cut minimally for attention. Some do it multiple times a day. Some do it once. It's a spectrum and you have no idea where Mary lies.

Same goes for being harassed and bullied.

To say she suffers from stockholm syndrome or is akin to a battered wife is a slight to those who actually suffer from it.

She was given diuretics and publically shamed about her weight. Not “told to lose weight”

Each of your claims above are false.

Mary did not say she was given diuretics. I'm amazed that people like you will just make up things to try to shape a false narrative. I don't know if this is simply due to your sheepish ignorance or if it's a calculated agenda of lies.

She claimed he wanted her to take diuretics, but she gave no evidence of this or any real clarification of what he may have said in this regard. It also appears that her father (an MD) was involved and advised of any and every supplement that she was given. Hard to believe that someone suggested she take a banned substance in light of her father's involvement. Surely, she would have discussed this issue with her father.

By the way, she was not "publicly" shamed about her weight. As I understand, she was weighed like all others in a very tight knit training group and her weight was not publicly broadcast to the world.

If you want to be taken seriously, at least stick to the facts an don't maliciously create phony stories.

Reviewing the actual facts and putting things into a reasonable perspective is no longer acceptable - a group of people want to see themselves as SJW. They don't even mind warping reality to fit their bizarrely vindictive narratives. I don't know why - does this somehow make them feel better about themselves?

The idea that people compare Mary's experience to that of a battered wife is so outrageous that it baffles me. How can anyone with any sense make such an equivalence?

Yes, I understand that you did not perform well at the D-1 level and you bear a terrible grudge against your coaches, the system and running in general. I suggest you get therapy before you begin cutting yourself.

By the way, don't you think Mary should have talked to her MD father about her emotional problems as soon as they appeared. Did she think a professional running coach was a replacement for her own family at her age. Wouldn't she have discussed cutting issues with her MD father before or as soon as she would a coach. If not, this seems very strange.

Not to be insensitive here but google Mary Cain pictures from 2013/14 when she was lighting it up and then from 2015-16. A huge difference. Not to say she was fat by any means but she certainly gained some weight.

Snendn wrote:

She was given diuretics and publically shamed about her weight. Not “told to lose weight”

I didn’t hear about Mary’s public shaming until she mentioned it in her NYT video.

Rather than public shaming I think it’s more of a coming out.

maybe the missing piece here is this: Alberto's job was to train Mary Cain so she could get as close to her potential as possible. And Mary Cain's goal was the same: get as close to her potential as possible.

It's 100% obvious that they failed.

How do we split the responsibility for that?

I'd argue that the 60 year old world famous guy has far more responsibility than the 18 year old newbie. Just common sense here.

Coach/athlete is a partnership, sure. But in this case Alberto failed more than she failed. He should have known better.

The only post on here worth reading +1

She was never publicly shamed, but she is all over the media publicly shaming others. I guess this makes her feel better about herself.

There was a good point made on twitter that the two most damning accusations are:

Mary reporting self harm and receiving no help.

Mary being given diuretics and birth control pills to lose weight.

Minimizing and diluting her allegations to "the coach told her to lose weight" is absurd.