Unreal: UCSB hit with NCAA sanctions for having xc runners run over the summer

gauchowhoruns wrote:

...most of his training knowledge was antiquated and so he solely relied on the natural talent of the athletes.

^This

To his credit, he clearly got the memo about high mileage. But he also had athletes doing vo2 max workouts 8 months out of the year. Even the crustiest of old timers on this board know that is not an effective way to train.

Buddy....you clearly don't know what VO2 max training actually is. You should read a couple of books on training. Maybe that will help prevent your team from tanking so hard at conference next year ?.

I have a question... What if the athletes are the ones enforcing the rules? Let's say the coach gives training suggestions for the summer to athletes who want a training plan. Then those athletes are the ones who enforce the training plan, logging of runs, weight lifting, etc. Is the coach at fault?

If'n a kids on scholarship, the coach has the right to know if'n he's goofing off.

You think Saban, down here at Alabamy, dont know what his critters are doing every minute?

Hogwash! (This means you, Arkansauce!)

WROONNGG wrote:

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Nike and Adidas were found to have been sending large amounts of money to steer recruits to particular schools such as UNC,

No, this is not correct. There have been no claims against UNC and UNC does not need this kind of help. You're thinking of the ghost courses that women's basketball players were accused of taking, which also were a fabrication of the SJW lawyer who hated sports.

Informant in the federal college basketball pay for play scandal confesses he paid UNC football players, among others, over 2000 to 2013 (the schools were UNC, Alabama, Michigan, Northwestern, Notre Dame, Penn State and Pittsburgh).

"The investigation led in 2010 to the permanent ineligibility of Marvin Austin, Greg Little and Robert Quinn, three high-profile players. Eventually, the NCAA also penalized UNC with a one-year postseason ban, which it served in 2012. Other penalties included a $50,000 fine, the loss of football scholarships and vacated victories."

Two former UNC Basketball players names in the College Basketball scandal.

"The names of former North Carolina forwards Brice Johnson and Tony Bradley are mentioned in the Yahoo Sports report published on Friday that details the expenditures of former NBA agent Andy Miller and his agency, ASM Sports.

Yahoo obtained documents from the ongoing federal investigation into college basketball recruiting that showed Miller and his former associate, Christian Dawkins, kept a spreadsheet detailing their expenses in their attempts to land future clients.

Dawkins, 25, was charged by the U.S. Attorney’s Office in September with three counts of wire fraud and one count of money-laundering conspiracy.

The documents published by Yahoo on Friday outline payments or loans to some current and former college basketball players. Former N.C. State guard Dennis Smith Jr. is listed as receiving $43,500 according to one document and $73,500, according to another, before he got to N.C. State.

Johnson, an All-American at UNC in the 2015-16 season and in his second season in the NBA, signed with Miller’s agency out of UNC before the 2016 NBA draft. Miller relinquished his agent certification with the NBA and the NBA Players’ Association in December.

N.C. State disassociated itself with Miller in 2012, N.C. State athletic director Debbie Yow said in a statement on Friday."

"Johnson is named in the spreadsheet as going to dinner with Dion Bethea, his former AAU coach, and Dawkins on March 1, 2016. The meal, at an Italian chain restaurant, cost $100.09.

The document doesn’t provide any details about whether Dawkins paid for Johnson’s meal, which would be a minor NCAA violation. It is not against NCAA rules to meet with an agent."

"Bradley, who played for the Tar Heels during the 2016-17 season, is mentioned in the article as one of the former players, or one of his family members, meeting with or having a meal with Dawkins. The name of the Utah Jazz rookie does not appear in any of the documents that Yahoo posted on Friday. Bradley did not sign with Miller’s agency."

"UNC coach Roy Williams was asked about a previous Yahoo report on Feb. 16 and said he wasn’t concerned about his program’s involvement in the FBI investigation.

“I feel very comfortable,” Williams said. “If the phone rings at night, I’m not worried about that. I may worry about a lot of other things but it ain’t about that.”

The name of former UNC forward Brendan Haywood, who spent 13 seasons in the NBA, is also mentioned in the documents. Haywood, who played at UNC from 1997 to 2001, was loaned $351.17 in 2015, according to the documents.

In September, the FBI and other federal authorities announced a sweeping investigation into bribery and corruption in college basketball.

At the core of the investigation was money from athletic apparel giant Adidas allegedly being used to pay the families of basketball recruits in exchange for attending colleges with Adidas deals, to bribe college coaches to veer those players toward certain agents and financial advisers linked to the apparel company.

According to the FBI indictments, families of college basketball recruits were paid $100,000 and more."

WROONNGG wrote:

zxcvzxcv wrote:

Nike and Adidas were found to have been sending large amounts of money to steer recruits to particular schools such as UNC,

No, this is not correct. There have been no claims against UNC and UNC does not need this kind of help. You're thinking of the ghost courses that women's basketball players were accused of taking, which also were a fabrication of the SJW lawyer who hated sports.

To treat your second claim, the ghost courses that players throughout UNC athletics did take were no fabrication. They were organized through the African American studies department and Jan Boxill, a philosopher of sport, with the aid of the department secretary. They are well documented. It involved 3,100 student-athletes!

"Jan Boxill, a former UNC-Chapel Hill faculty leader implicated in the fake class scandal, has resigned – months after the university took action to fire her.

The resignation was effective Feb. 28, according to a statement released Thursday by Rick White, associate vice chancellor for communications and public affairs. UNC gave Boxill notice of its intent to fire her for misconduct, according to a letter to her on Oct. 22.

That was the same day the university released the Wainstein report, which detailed the extent of an academic and athletic scandal that stretched almost two decades and involved about 3,100 students in bogus classes and independent studies. A disproportionate share were athletes, and the scheme led to high grades that kept some of them eligible to play.

The report by former federal prosecutor Kenneth Wainstein showed that Boxill knew about the university’s bogus African and Afro-American Studies classes, steered athletes to them and gave them inappropriate academic help. She also suggested to AFAM staff what grades players should receive.

Boxill was chair of the faculty, a teaching professor of philosophy and a counselor to the UNC women’s basketball team. She was also director of the Parr Center for Ethics, but was stripped of that position on Oct. 22.

The Oct. 22 dismissal letter from Provost Jim Dean to Boxill suggested that she also used her own department – philosophy – to enroll students in independent study classes that required “minimal academic expectations and that were offered at times to accommodate student-athletes.”"

Cancel the NCAA wrote:

This is so laughable...every college in the country violates this rule then. It would be irresponsible coaching to turn athletes loose for the summer and not check in on them and give them a training plan. My coach was pretty old school, so we had to mail in our weekly logs on index cards. If a coach doesn't know what his runners are doing all summer, then how is he supposed to train them properly when they do get back on campus?

You will know during the first pre-season camp (if you have one) or the 1st practice back on campus if they trained or not during the summer.

Sprinters, Jumpers and Throwers also are given summer workouts.

The problem in this case was that the coach punished them if they didn't do the workouts, which were voluntary.

Think about it. If they have enough 'disgruntled' athletes to send to be interviewed, then something is going on. You make it sound like there was some cartoon villain in the athletic department trying to destroy the livelihood of a kindly old man because... evil!

Yes, exactly. The principle of Occam's razor at work.

OMG, you never had a day off, Pete sometimes employed a stick versus a carrot approach, & he likely promoted not eating ice cream and drinking beer to help athletes achieve their max potential, in keeping with his job requirements and calling? Shudder. How shall you ever adapt to a real, harsh world that isn’t merely going to reward you for showing up and will present you with myriad “unfair,” seemingly egregious, and challenging hurdles to clear? A world where “average” isn’t going to cut it? What kind of helicopter house did you grow up in?

You could’ve stopped running for the team or transferred out if you didn’t like it. I also ran for UCSB, transferring IN. Dolan was an unbelievably good and knowledgeable coach compared to what I had at a prior university. Yes, he was “hands on,” which was a very good thing, and, yes, he was somewhat disappointed if certain training/mileage goals weren’t met, but that’s called accountability.

He sent a general summer running plan but never checked on it during the summer, and, while there was a general expectation that we would show up for the Sunday long run, it was never required by Dolan. We simply wanted to be there to get better. I was never punished, and, in fact, I was allowed to compete in some invitationals that I really didn’t belong in.

But amazing how they interviewed you. I guess I should’ve played water polo instead. That team’s recruiting violations were merely about financial and recruiting improprieties, not some draconian head coach.

Maybe Dolan really changed his ways, and I should have more empathy. To be fair, we weren’t there at the same time, clearly. But long distance running is grueling and hard and relentless and, sometimes, unforgiving. A D1 program is not the same thing as a club.

Vivá! wrote:

Buddy....you clearly don't know what VO2 max training actually is. You should read a couple of books on training. Maybe that will help prevent your team from tanking so hard at conference next year ?.

Hi Pete!

A Division I coach wrote:

As someone said earlier, this is about UCSB making sure they have a case to not pay Coach Dolan for firing him. Plan and simple. I've seen it many, many times at different schools I have worked at that the institution comes up with BS violation and then cans the coach, not having to pay them out. I really hope that Coach Dolan gets his suit settled in a positive manner.

Yes you may be correct that this UCSB driven, the athletes in the end though suffer if all the penalties , fines are enforced.

Dolan in the end was lazy, he the let the track facility become maybe the worst track for a D-1 school in the country.

Read between the lines. This has more to do with negating the lawsuit brought on by former coach Pete Dolan than any actual serious violations. Pure politics.

BINGO!

The track at UCSB fell into ridiculous disrepair but if you think that was Pete Dolan's fault you are mistaken. He led fundraising efforts for years, which ironically came to fruition with a new track during the Spring of 2018 in the middle of everything else going down.

Seriously though. You can't be bashing Pete's training if you don't even grasp basic training concepts like what VO2 max is.

Go ahead and google what VO2 max training is and tell me if you still think thats what 8 months of Pete's yearly training program consisted of.

It was excessive on hard repeats and phased out any kind of tempo-ish paced aerobic maintenance way too early in the season.

You're kind of right though. Vo2 max training implies that there's some application of sports science in your program. Pete did not care to educate himself on such topics. It is unfortunate that your gOoGlE wHat Vo2 mAx TrAiNiNg iS attitude did not rub off on him.

Wow. I stand corrected. It is amazing what you do not learn when you live in a bubble.

Thank you.

Gauch Potato wrote:

It was excessive on hard repeats and phased out any kind of tempo-ish paced aerobic maintenance way too early in the season.

You're kind of right though. Vo2 max training implies that there's some application of sports science in your program. Pete did not care to educate himself on such topics. It is unfortunate that your gOoGlE wHat Vo2 mAx TrAiNiNg iS attitude did not rub off on him.

Dolan literally has a master's degree in sports science. Do you?

Well Pete must have dramatically changed his program at some point or youre just making things up. I clearly remember the thursday tempo run being a nearly year long staple of the program. I even have several years worth of training logs to reference haha.